Why should I get a SONY reader over a Kindle or nook?

[delphin]

Originally Posted by BeccaPrice

One thing about Amazon is their amazing customer service.

For me, the jury is still out on which I prefer. I haven't used the Sony enough yet to know how intrusive the touch page turns will be. I have to wait til my skin or my cover arrives so that the Sony will be more comfortable in my hands. I really like the Sony size - I could easily do without the Kindle keyboard, but I like the page turning buttons on both the right and left hand sides of the unit.

Yes the side page turn buttons did work well on the Kindle 3 that I tried, but I suspect that Sony thought they would be too prone to accidental bumps on these new more compact readers. I have trouble with them sometimes even on the somewhat larger Kindle 3 (when I shift the way I am holding it, or when I go to set it down, or pick it up, I end up accidentally turning the page).

On my Sony PRS-650 I have a nice padded book-cover style folio cover, so I just hold it cradled in one hand, and alternate between pressing the lower page turn buttons with my thumb and using finger swipes on the IR screen.

I find that with the case, having both the bottom buttons and touch screen available is a pretty good combination, though for a bare reader without the case, I would also miss having side page turn buttons.

This is one area where BOTH Sony and Amazon aren't being very smart, because I think these buttons would be less prone to trouble (even if they had them on a very small device like the PRS-350), if there was a simple way to disable the side page-turn buttons when you don't want them active, and quickly re-enable them when you need them. That way, those who want to use the right side buttons exclusively could easily keep the left side buttons from causing trouble.

Of course, those who like to have both sets active could just as easily leave them set that way as well.

Something simple like, hold down BOTH forward and the back buttons on either side at the same time for 2 seconds to disable that side, hold them both down again for the same 2 seconds and that side is re-enabled (a little text window would pop up on the side next to the buttons for a second in each case to tell you the status)

There are about a zillion small things like this that would be wonderful additions to the Kindle 3 and the PRS-650 (like MORE FONTS!), but sadly although B&N seems to be pretty good about listening to customers and releasing updates, both Sony and Amazon are really, really, really, BAD about it. They almost never release new software to improve performance or add features until the next model (which comes with it's own NEW set of bug that will also most likely NEVER get fixed)

If they screw something up so badly that the reader completely locks up, or just won't work, and are getting a lot of returns on the unit, then just possibly they will do an update, but short of that you are just stuck.

Case in point, on the Sony, if you pick Landscape mode, the page advance is not right. It doesn't advance by a full screen like it should, and leaves about a third to a half the last screen. This is a particularly bad bug in landscape mode because vertical space is at a premium, so you really don't have space to waste on every single page turn due to some stupid bug.

Or how about this - Open up that wonderful Sony User Manual I was bragging about earlier in this thread. Now search for the text "MP3" My PRS-650 won't find that string even though it appears several times in the PDF document. Apparently there is some kind of stupid bug that keeps it from being able to search for numeric values correctly in PDF's. You can put in just the "MP" part and it will eventually find it (along with several "MP" partial matches) but if you try it the other way and just put in a simple number "3" IT CAN'T EVEN FIND THAT! (though there are lots of '3's in the User Manual PDF)

I searched for the same kind of numeric strings, and mixed alpha-numeric strings, in an EPUB on my PRS-650 and it worked FINE, but numeric searches in PDF's definitely seem to be screwed up.

It would be interesting to know if this is fixed on your PRS-350, or if it also will have problems finding numeric search strings in the PDF user manual (though you probably can't use the string "MP3", since that string legitimately may not appear, since the 350 lacks an audio player). Try searching for a simply number value like "350" (minus the quotes of course) that you know is present somewhere in the user guide, and see if it can find it.

Edit: Searching for 350 will probably work, because my PRS-650 DOES find the number string "650" correctly, as well as the exact string "PRS-650" (so at least my Sony does know it's own name ) but it still won't find "MP3" or even the "3" in MP3, so it may be something in the PDF encoding of the phrase "MP3" in this specific document that is keeping the 3 from matching. Still pretty strange though

These are the kinds of things that should FORCE Sony to do an update to the firmware, because they are JUST FLAT OUT BUGS, but good luck getting Sony to fix them (much less add new fonts or other features).

Fortunatly, the stuff I have found so far on the PRS-650 have been the kind of things I can live with in a pinch, because they don't effect features that I use frequently.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by delphin

Case in point, on the Sony, if you pick Landscape mode, the page advance is not right. It doesn't advance by a full screen like it should, and leaves about a third to a half the last screen. This is a particularly bad bug in landscape mode because vertical space is at a premium, so you really don't have space to waste on every single page turn due to some stupid bug.

The 505 model has that too. I don't think it's a bug - I think that it does that so that when you are reading a scanned PDF, for example, and the bottom of the screen cuts out the bottom half of a line, you can read the full line on your next page advance. I'm fairly sure that all of their models have that. On the 505 the repeated text is in a lighter font. A lot of people are irritated by that, but I can see how someone would find it useful (I have, at times, for one; it is an annoyance sometimes, though).

[delphin]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

The 505 model has that too. I don't think it's a bug - I think that it does that so that when you are reading a scanned PDF, for example, and the bottom of the screen cuts out the bottom half of a line, you can read the full line on your next page advance. I'm fairly sure that all of their models have that. On the 505 the repeated text is in a lighter font. A lot of people are irritated by that, but I can see how someone would find it useful (I have, at times, for one; it is an annoyance sometimes, though).

First, of all it's NOT just a single line, but more like 1/3 to 1/2 the screen that overlaps.

Second, it's not just for PDF, it also effects EPUB, and there is no reason that re-flowed text like EPUBs should work differently in landscape than portrait.

Your excellent point about maintaining continuity for scanned text and figures not withstanding, I haven't seen a single book reader review site that mentions this as anything but a BUG, and the fact that this has been this way in the Sony products for a long time just makes it worse, not better.

While it's true that some readers (like FBreader) actually let you set the number of lines-to-overlap on a page feed, there is NO WAY it should be doing this without a specific specialized user setting telling it to, as most PDF and EPUB readers default to ZERO lines overlap (and manage to keep this value for both portrait and landscape orientations just fine without problems).

Honestly, I see your point, but I think that like 'margin cut' and other specialized page options, this is NOT something that should be the default. For EPUBs I can't think of any valid excuse why it should work the way it does EVER unless Sony wants to include a separate "lines-to-overlap-on-page-feed" option setting for Portrait AND Landscape modes (in which case, the default values for both modes should be ZERO anyway!)

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by delphin

First, of all it's NOT just a single line, but more like 1/3 to 1/2 the screen that overlaps.

Second, it's not just for PDF, it also effects EPUB, and there is no reason that re-flowed text like EPUBs should work differently in landscape than portrait.

While it's true that some readers (like FBreader) actually let you set the number of lines-to-overlap value on page feed, there is NO WAY it should be doing this without a specific user setting telling it to, as most PDF and EPUB readers default to ZERO lines overlap, and manage to hold onto this value for BOTH portrait AND landscape orientations.

Honestly, I can't think of any valid excuse why it should work the way it does, and the fact that this is a long time bug in the Sony products just makes it worse, not better.

I wasn't trying to criticize you, I was simply trying to point out that I don't think it's a bug, in the sense that it was unintentional on Sony's part - I think that that feature was intentionally added by Sony. It has bothered me at times, too, and I have seen many people complain about it. I have had PDF lines overlap, however, and I figured that this was the reason for them keeping the overlap.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

I wasn't trying to criticize you, I was simply trying to point out that I don't think it's a bug, in the sense that it was unintentional on Sony's part - I think that that feature was intentionally added by Sony. It has bothered me at times, too, and I have seen many people complain about it. I have had PDF lines overlap, however, and I figured that this was the reason for them keeping the overlap.

As I said, you made an excellent point about maintaining continuity when text (or a figure, for that matter) gets chopped in half.

I guess Sony figured that since your vertical view is such a small part of a page in landscape, this overlap is MORE important so you can still make sense of split pages.

That does make sense, but my point about not WASTING the limited vertical display space in landscape mode, when it is at a premium, and when the overlap is not wanted or needed, is also valid.

Sony should have long ago made this a per document settable option (like base font size) with page feeds settable to 1/3 page feed (2/3 overlap) 1/2 page feed (1/2 overlap) 2/3 page feed (1/3 overlap) or FULL page feed (ZERO overlap). Or even a simple numeric value in percent 5% to 100%

I understand your point about it not being a bug, but Sony is still getting beat up about this, so they should at least make it an option.

[barium]

I haven't used either of the other devices, but the touchscreen seems fantastic for:

-clicking on links to navigate a document
-looking up words
-selecting books from a list
-limiting the size of the device (keyboard, minitouch screen, and side buttons all make the Nook and Kindle devices bigger than they need to be

Then there's the fact that Amazon and B&N do a much better job, from what I can tell, of monitoring and controlling what you do with the device. And you can't check out library books via Overdrive on Kindles.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by barium

I haven't used either of the other devices, but the touchscreen seems fantastic for . . .

Yes all those things and more . . .

If you are mainly reading simple fiction; then your reader doesn't have to deal with much in the way of navigation; just loading and displaying your book, and giving you a simple way to change pages.

But if you are dealing with something in the least bit technical, for example a PDF document with a nice Table of Contents, an Index, and a lot of hypertext cross-linking, then it's not even close, the PRS-350/650/950 touch screen readers just blow away the Nook and Kindle.

The touch screen interface is also a lot nicer for navagating titles within the personal library of books you have loaded on the reader, especially if you have a largish number of titles on the reader at the same time.

For example I am a fan of Golden-Age SciFi and I was able to grab more than 1200 free EPUB titles in just a few hours of browsing on the public domain section of www.feedbooks.com

I Wouldn't even want to try that many side-loaded titles on the Nook, and though the Kindle can definitely handle it, it also slows down a bit as your HOME PAGE index starts to grow to several hundred pages itself.

On my Sony, the only things I noticed with well over a thousand titles, is that it took about 2 minutes to index everything when they were first loaded, and now exiting from a book back to the home index takes about 2 extra seconds (4 seconds for 1250 titles, vs. 2 seconds for 50 titles).

Searches within the title index are still lightning quick (usually 1 or 2 seconds), and the important day to day reading operations like loading books, changing pages, and waking back up from power-save standby are still virtually instantaneous (no noticeable change at all)

If all I ever wanted from my reader was to just plod along through the latest Tom Clancy novel, then a Kindle or Nook will do a perfectly acceptable job, but for technical docs, or managing a large library, I'll take the Sony every time.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Hmm... if I was stranded on a desert island I would want to be rescued. Of course, if I had to be and I could choose a reader it would be a crate of paper books... because I'm not quite sure how I would charge a Sony or a Kindle.

BOb

Easy, solar charger.

[mcrmama]

I have found that touch screen changes the whole reading experience. I notice the flashes etc way more with buttons. With touch screen it just seems so much more smooth and natural and becomes part of the book and I forget that I am using an electronic device. I don't think I could go back to buttons.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by mcrmama

I have found that touch screen changes the whole reading experience. I notice the flashes etc way more with buttons. With touch screen it just seems so much more smooth and natural and becomes part of the book and I forget that I am using an electronic device. I don't think I could go back to buttons.

By the time my finger is off the screen and my eyes at the top of the page, the page has already turned. And it's quite fast too. And yes, I agree that with the swipe interface, you do notice the flash less.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by delphin

Sony should have long ago made this a per document settable option (like base font size) with page feeds settable to 1/3 page feed (2/3 overlap) 1/2 page feed (1/2 overlap) 2/3 page feed (1/3 overlap) or FULL page feed (ZERO overlap). Or even a simple numeric value in percent 5% to 100%

I understand your point about it not being a bug, but Sony is still getting beat up about this, so they should at least make it an option.

I agree, it should be user-settable.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by crutnacker

I understand the idea that SONY uses more open formats, but let's assume I'm a guy who likes best sellers and new content. Given the price premium for SONY (at least for the readers that have a lot of features), why should I get a SONY over others?

I'm genuinely interested because I like the look of SONY readers, but think the Kindle and nook feature sets might be more important to me. Having never used any of them, I don't really know.

Remember that snooty Kindle commercial -

"I paid more for these sunglasses" - translation, if you are the kind of trend conscious idiot who will pay 150 bucks for a pair of designer sunglasses to impress your friends, then we DEFINITELY want YOU as a customer.

Well, I guess I am NOT that person because I have already checked out and read about $450 worth of books, based on Amazon prices, and read them FREE from my local library using my Sony (something that is not even legally possible to do on the Kindle).

[Meemo]

Originally Posted by delphin

Remember that snooty Kindle commercial -

"I paid more for these sunglasses" - translation, if you are the kind of trend conscious idiot who will pay 150 bucks for a pair of designer sunglasses to impress your friends, then we DEFINITELY want YOU as a customer.

Well, I guess I am NOT that person because I have already checked out and read about $450 worth of books, based on Amazon prices, and read them FREE from my local library using my Sony (something that is not even legally possible to do on the Kindle).

I always thought that commercial (and comment) was more of a "I didn't even pay as much as I did for these sunglasses, much less as much as you did for that iPad that you can't even read in the sun" comment. Although I'd never pay that much for sunglasses (unless they're prescription) - I lose them too easily.

I will say I'm loving being able to read library books on my nook now that I've found some libraries I can access (none of them local). But as a device, I much prefer my K2 over the nook. I really liked the Sony 300 I had, but when I found I could read all the books I'd gotten from Sony, Borders and Kobo on a nook, but not vice versa, it made sense to make the switch. Sure miss those collections on the Sony, though....

[CarolC]

I went with the Nook Color and love it. I do, however, miss the ability to underline and store notes that I had on the Sony 600.

[delphin]

Almost went with the standard e-ink Nook back when they had the $99 dollar refurbished units available. I figured that most of the refurb units were FINE hardware wise, and had just been returned due to frustrations with the first release Nook firmware, which was pretty horrible.

When those sold out, and the price went back up by $50 dollars, I lost interest.

Kind of glad it worked out as it did now, as I am REALLY LOVING my PRS-650.

The Nook Color is pretty nice, but as a backlit LCD touchscreen, Android Tablet OS based device, that's a whole different ballgame - nice as an added option - but NOT as a replacement for an electronic paper e-ink reader like my PRS-650.

I'm keeping my eye on the Nook Color, but if B&N makes it even harder (or impossible), to 'root' the Android OS, so I can load my own custom apps, then that would make the Nook Color a non-starter for me.

I can just get a less expensive, more flexible, generic Android Tablet device and just load the B&N, Kindle, and Adobe Readers, along with any of thousands of other Android Apps, and have a more flexible device for less money.

In any case, the tablet market is becoming super competitive now, so I think I'll hold off a few months until we see another generation of Tablet devices.