Hmm...my experience with Kobo - Page 2

TechniSol · 12-13-2012, 09:47 PM

John,

I appreciate your effort at displaying how obtuse a process it is to determine how many pages are left in a chapter and return in the current firmware. Please appreciate just how ridiculous the need to know that is on a device that resumes from precisely where you left it, so you can begin reading there with little or no effort applied... making resuming very simple. Is there some requirement to know how many pages are left on a device that will happily hold your place and resume from anywhere one might stop?

Did you rail about how paper books required that you memorize where you left off, failed to allow you to zoom the text to fit your needs, couldn't search for phrases, would have been completely unmanageable in terms of transportation of a library that could easily shame any complete bookstore's contents, and so forth and so on that we now take for granted?

I'm just trying to make the point that we tend to get a little hung up on very minor "requirements" while handily ignoring all the benefits and spending not a moment considering the necessity of tradeoffs in most things, none of which would make you sell your device and buy another... Granted, we all want more, and nothing is ever perfect, but ebook readers in their own ways are so far superior to paper books on so many divergent fronts that I'm beginning to think about the only horizons left are color displays, possibly looking and smelling like books, and stripping selected content and dumping it directly to a text editor for quotations when referencing a work in a paper one might write...

MrDoug · 12-13-2012, 10:16 PM

Hey .. I have both KPW and KG.. the KOBO Glo kicks Kindle PaperWhites Butt Up and Down...
No Contest.. just my 5 cents..

Doug

John F · 12-14-2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechniSol

John,

I appreciate your effort at displaying how obtuse a process it is to determine how many pages are left in a chapter and return in the current firmware. Please appreciate just how ridiculous the need to know that is on a device that resumes from precisely where you left it, so you can begin reading there with little or no effort applied... making resuming very simple. Is there some requirement to know how many pages are left on a device that will happily hold your place and resume from anywhere one might stop?

Did you rail about how paper books required that you memorize where you left off, failed to allow you to zoom the text to fit your needs, couldn't search for phrases, would have been completely unmanageable in terms of transportation of a library that could easily shame any complete bookstore's contents, and so forth and so on that we now take for granted?

I'm just trying to make the point that we tend to get a little hung up on very minor "requirements" while handily ignoring all the benefits and spending not a moment considering the necessity of tradeoffs in most things, none of which would make you sell your device and buy another... Granted, we all want more, and nothing is ever perfect, but ebook readers in their own ways are so far superior to paper books on so many divergent fronts that I'm beginning to think about the only horizons left are color displays, possibly looking and smelling like books, and stripping selected content and dumping it directly to a text editor for quotations when referencing a work in a paper one might write...

Just because pbooks have deficiencies in some areas, doesn't mean we should "settle" for the deficiencies of ebook readers in other areas.

In particular,

Quote:

... but ebook readers in their own ways are so far superior to paper books on so many divergent fronts that I'm beginning to think about the only horizons left are color displays, possibly looking and smelling like books, and stripping selected content and dumping it directly to a text editor for quotations when referencing a work in a paper one might write. ...

I guess it is a matter of differing opinions, then. I think there is still much room for improvement in getting a stable fiction ereader, never mind some of the superfluous stuff like library management, annotations, social stuff, ...

And one person's view of "minor "requirement"" is another person's "bug" or "how could they possibly implement that in such a difficult to use manner".

TechniSol · 12-15-2012, 02:10 AM

John,

A bug is something that has been implemented by design, but does not function properly. A "feature" you'd like that is not implemented, or is not implemented the way you'd like it, or think it could or should have been done is not a bug. Disappointing to you perhaps, but not a bug.

Feature creep is the biggest danger to any product because once you get past a certain point it becomes so complex, convoluted, and intertwined that debugging is nearly impossible or simply so labor intensive that it becomes impractical.

As an engineer, soft, hard, or both, you have to deal with practical limits such as memory size, code space, variable storage, other people's code(Ugh!), other features which have been assessed as having higher priority often by persons completely unsuited to make such decisions practically, etc. Little niggling details like how many pages are left in the chapter, the book, the series, the universe become a bit ridiculous to consider. Engineering can often be best expressed as the act of packing 10 lbs of foot into a 5 lb sock while still maintaining a functioning foot. Woe be unto he who taunts said foot, as he will find himself kicked twice as hard in the seat of his pants...

Yes, you're correct, it's a matter of opinion. What you're wrong about is thinking that everyone's opinion should count the same. No one ever engineered a product by democratic consensus. Well, certainly not a product worth having, making, or attaching one's career or name.

I like features too. I love cool hacks and stuff you'd never think of, but find you can't imagine living without once you've tried it. But, there must be limits.

Now, all that said, if it was my pet project I'd set things up so that touching the top half of the center of the screen while reading would bring up a dialog that showed various details about the book like the book title, chapter title, author, summary, ISBN, current page number, pages left in the chapter, time, date, etc. that was user configurable from a list of possible choices offered in a setup page. However, I'm not the guy with a 2 foot crowbar trying to open a 6 foot wide door who has to get all that crappola into working code space whilst weighing the relative merits of what other features on the working list might be better suited or more highly valued by the greatest number of consumers while trying to ignore the marketing guys who know more than the poor sucker paid to make sure the rubber hits the road, all while staying within a budget designed by wide eyed optimists who apparently figure everyone but them should work 25 hours a day, 8 days a week on minimal salary and be happy about it because the more they work, the less free time they'll have, so look at all that expensive leisure time we can save those poor peons. Yeah, been there, done that, and the things I've been tempted to do with that crowbar! 'Nuff said?

bartveld · 12-18-2012, 02:36 AM

How about putting that 10 lb foot in the 6 foot door?

TechniSol · 12-18-2012, 11:56 PM

Hey, I said it was a 2 FOOT crowbar...

david_e · 12-19-2012, 12:50 AM

My experience with Kobo has only been absolutely positive.

I use it just as it came. I don't go in search of updates, I don't install plugins, I don't let Calibre connect to it.

While I sympathize with those who experience issues, I can't help but wonder how many of them are self-inflicted.

12-13-2012, 09:47 PM	#16
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	John, I appreciate your effort at displaying how obtuse a process it is to determine how many pages are left in a chapter and return in the current firmware. Please appreciate just how ridiculous the need to know that is on a device that resumes from precisely where you left it, so you can begin reading there with little or no effort applied... making resuming very simple. Is there some requirement to know how many pages are left on a device that will happily hold your place and resume from anywhere one might stop? Did you rail about how paper books required that you memorize where you left off, failed to allow you to zoom the text to fit your needs, couldn't search for phrases, would have been completely unmanageable in terms of transportation of a library that could easily shame any complete bookstore's contents, and so forth and so on that we now take for granted? I'm just trying to make the point that we tend to get a little hung up on very minor "requirements" while handily ignoring all the benefits and spending not a moment considering the necessity of tradeoffs in most things, none of which would make you sell your device and buy another... Granted, we all want more, and nothing is ever perfect, but ebook readers in their own ways are so far superior to paper books on so many divergent fronts that I'm beginning to think about the only horizons left are color displays, possibly looking and smelling like books, and stripping selected content and dumping it directly to a text editor for quotations when referencing a work in a paper one might write... Last edited by TechniSol; 12-13-2012 at 09:52 PM.

12-13-2012, 10:16 PM	#17
MrDoug Banned Posts: 302 Karma: 1658456 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Boise, Idaho Device: IPad - Kobo Glo - Nook Glo - Samsung Galaxy Note II	Hey .. I have both KPW and KG.. the KOBO Glo kicks Kindle PaperWhites Butt Up and Down... No Contest.. just my 5 cents.. Doug Last edited by MrDoug; 12-15-2012 at 10:04 AM.

12-15-2012, 02:10 AM	#19
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	John, A bug is something that has been implemented by design, but does not function properly. A "feature" you'd like that is not implemented, or is not implemented the way you'd like it, or think it could or should have been done is not a bug. Disappointing to you perhaps, but not a bug. Feature creep is the biggest danger to any product because once you get past a certain point it becomes so complex, convoluted, and intertwined that debugging is nearly impossible or simply so labor intensive that it becomes impractical. As an engineer, soft, hard, or both, you have to deal with practical limits such as memory size, code space, variable storage, other people's code(Ugh!), other features which have been assessed as having higher priority often by persons completely unsuited to make such decisions practically, etc. Little niggling details like how many pages are left in the chapter, the book, the series, the universe become a bit ridiculous to consider. Engineering can often be best expressed as the act of packing 10 lbs of foot into a 5 lb sock while still maintaining a functioning foot. Woe be unto he who taunts said foot, as he will find himself kicked twice as hard in the seat of his pants... Yes, you're correct, it's a matter of opinion. What you're wrong about is thinking that everyone's opinion should count the same. No one ever engineered a product by democratic consensus. Well, certainly not a product worth having, making, or attaching one's career or name. I like features too. I love cool hacks and stuff you'd never think of, but find you can't imagine living without once you've tried it. But, there must be limits. Now, all that said, if it was my pet project I'd set things up so that touching the top half of the center of the screen while reading would bring up a dialog that showed various details about the book like the book title, chapter title, author, summary, ISBN, current page number, pages left in the chapter, time, date, etc. that was user configurable from a list of possible choices offered in a setup page. However, I'm not the guy with a 2 foot crowbar trying to open a 6 foot wide door who has to get all that crappola into working code space whilst weighing the relative merits of what other features on the working list might be better suited or more highly valued by the greatest number of consumers while trying to ignore the marketing guys who know more than the poor sucker paid to make sure the rubber hits the road, all while staying within a budget designed by wide eyed optimists who apparently figure everyone but them should work 25 hours a day, 8 days a week on minimal salary and be happy about it because the more they work, the less free time they'll have, so look at all that expensive leisure time we can save those poor peons. Yeah, been there, done that, and the things I've been tempted to do with that crowbar! 'Nuff said? Last edited by TechniSol; 12-15-2012 at 02:43 AM.

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12-18-2012, 02:36 AM	#20
bartveld Evangelist Posts: 413 Karma: 1477913 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Netherlands Device: KA1, Galaxy S8, Galaxy Tab A 10.1, ReMarkable	How about putting that 10 lb foot in the 6 foot door?

12-18-2012, 11:56 PM	#21
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	Hey, I said it was a 2 FOOT crowbar...

12-19-2012, 12:50 AM	#22
david_e Seriously? Posts: 529 Karma: 3347562 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kobo Mini, iWhatever	My experience with Kobo has only been absolutely positive. I use it just as it came. I don't go in search of updates, I don't install plugins, I don't let Calibre connect to it. While I sympathize with those who experience issues, I can't help but wonder how many of them are self-inflicted.

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