E Ink forecasts loss as ebook device demand falls

[charmian]

Re: the color e-ink screens. There are some commercial products that do use them (such as the one by Hanvon, and the Jetbook color), aren't they?

[Maverynthia]

Originally Posted by charmian

I think it's because:

1. A lot of people are fine with reading on tablets, which have fallen in price and weight, while improving screen quality.

2. Existing e-ink readers are "good enough" for many users. Probably many e-reader owners weren't even interested in the frontlighting improvement.

3. Carta is not a huge improvement over Pearl. (This is a really big, and often overlooked one, I believe)

4. Devices are generally subsidized by ebookstores.

I think this is mainly it AND the fact that people already have e-readers. The price they want for an e-ink device can get me a decent tablet now if I only want to read ebooks, and it has the added bonus of being able to pull from Amazon, Kobo, Nook and other places... also you can play Angry Birds on it too when you are bored.

I think eInk readers are going to have to majorly come down in price to see major sales, like $20~$30 range where people can go "Well it's just two or three 10s versus almost 100."

When I was looking into eInk myself the prices were the major turn off. "60~150$ JUST for text?!"

[arcadesdude]

Originally Posted by Maverynthia

When I was looking into eInk myself the prices were the major turn off. "60~150$ JUST for text?!"

HAHA! When I first got my Sony ereader for $350 I thought that was such a bargin! I mean, HUNDREDS of books and classics, the whole (not really) library from PG and whatever else I could find on the internet at the time including all my old TXT (remember those?) files and RTF/LITS etc would work (with conversion) on it...SUCH DEAL!

And now I'm spoiled by a ~$140 Kindle PW2 (w/o special offers) which also still works with all my books and the new format ones as well! Prices have gone waaaay down and the devices do so much more for the money. That's even when you factor in the US's crazy inflationary economy. Totally worth it now.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by Maverynthia

When I was looking into eInk myself the prices were the major turn off. "60~150$ JUST for text?!"

Originally Posted by arcadesdude

Prices have gone waaaay down and the devices do so much more for the money. That's even when you factor in the US's crazy inflationary economy. Totally worth it now.

I totally agree, definitely worth it to me. And I could never think of books as "text" in that sense. My first ereader was KK3G, and it just opened up a whole world for me. My Sony and my current ereader, Nook STR Glo, were both gifts and to me each has been invaluable. In my life, each has had far more worth than my do-everything tablet and smartphone.

[elcreative]

"60~150$ JUST for text?!" rather says it all... for the rest of us who like "BOOKS" then eInk was/is fantastic... easy reading anytime, anywhere with choice and no back/wrist strain...

[TechniSol]

Chicken Little Syndrome seems to be running rampant through this discussion... We're in a crappy economy, and the technology of e-ink is more mature now so more potential sales have been made, and yes, there is similar competition from multi-use devices like tablets on the rise. You notice the entire blurb is predicated on one wag making a statement based on one yearly cycle. I bet they sold less Fords from 1938 to 1945 or so, but there seems to be no shortage of them on freeways today... I think this is mostly shortsighted interpretation of a market. A decline may indicate that the market is temporarily saturated as the devices are multi-year lifetime based, or it may have been the year of the tablet between Apple Mini 2's with higher res screens and Nexus tablets with the same advantages. I think E-ink will stumble along a good while because there is a large enough market for a better device in terms of glare, outdoor visibility, etc.

If you really want to get nervous about e-ink be worried about what Amazon may be up to with their new display technology company vs. e-ink... If they can produce a display that has the lower glare and outdoor visibility of e-ink and is capable of higher refresh rates in color on demand while still keeping the lower power requirements of e-ink when refreshes are kept low then they are the new thing to watch. Amazon won't care as much about cost either if they can get you hooked to buy content from them, that's the real money end of the business.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Chicken Little Syndrome seems to be running rampant through this discussion... We're in a crappy economy, and the technology of e-ink is more mature now so more potential sales have been made, and yes, there is similar competition from multi-use devices like tablets on the rise. You notice the entire blurb is predicated on one wag making a statement based on one yearly cycle. I bet they sold less Fords from 1938 to 1945 or so, but there seems to be no shortage of them on freeways today... I think this is mostly shortsighted interpretation of a market. A decline may indicate that the market is temporarily saturated as the devices are multi-year lifetime based, or it may have been the year of the tablet between Apple Mini 2's with higher res screens and Nexus tablets with the same advantages. I think E-ink will stumble along a good while because there is a large enough market for a better device in terms of glare, outdoor visibility, etc.

If you really want to get nervous about e-ink be worried about what Amazon may be up to with their new display technology company vs. e-ink... If they can produce a display that has the lower glare and outdoor visibility of e-ink and is capable of higher refresh rates in color on demand while still keeping the lower power requirements of e-ink when refreshes are kept low then they are the new thing to watch. Amazon won't care as much about cost either if they can get you hooked to buy content from them, that's the real money end of the business.

I agree for the most part, although I wouldn't worry about Amazon's tech. If it is better than Eink I will buy it even though I am diehard a Sony/Eink fan.

It would have to have a significantly whiter screen and be equally light and have the same or better bezel/screen ratio.

And I agree Eink is not dying, just growth is slowing down. same with ebooks. Large growth increases cannot continue forever in any industry. Most people who want and can afford a car already have one. Some car companies go broke, but most trundle along just fine. Many of us have time displays on 10 or more devices, but I still see a lot of clocks and watches for sale in the stores. Pretty big sections devoted to them in fact which wouldn't be the case if no one was buying them.

Helen

[teija]

Let's not forget the basic "romance" (experience) factor... I find there is just something much more "tactile" to experience when reading on eInk versus a tablet or computer screen.
It is a similar reason why I recently bought a manual typewriter! It is a completely different experience (and phew, am I glad we have computers and are spoiled with our lovely, easy-to-use keyboards!)... lol

I am pretty sure that Sony's bow-out of the North American market may have already been factored into that "less" business for eInk this past year. I doubt Sony made many new devices knowing that they were ending their place in the market.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

And I agree Eink is not dying, just growth is slowing down.

sure it's slowing down: the book market is a small niche nowadays.

we readers are no different than gardeners. Very few people from the general population buy gardening tools, and yet there's a market for it however small.

let's just keep planting our seeds and trimming our fence without worrying about the garden next door...

[crossi]

I'm indifferent to wether eink continues. If some other technology is developed with all the advantages of eink (light weight, long battery life, good in sunlight, ect) but is even better then I'll be fine with making the transition. The current tablets with LCD screens don't meet my criteria for being an improvement on eink. I think of them more as mini computers instead of enhanced ereaders. I had hopes for mirasol but that didn't work out apparently. We'll see what comes up in the next few years.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I agree for the most part, although I wouldn't worry about Amazon's tech. If it is better than Eink I will buy it even though I am diehard a Sony/Eink fan.

It would have to have a significantly whiter screen and be equally light and have the same or better bezel/screen ratio.

And I agree Eink is not dying, just growth is slowing down. same with ebooks. Large growth increases cannot continue forever in any industry. Most people who want and can afford a car already have one. Some car companies go broke, but most trundle along just fine. Many of us have time displays on 10 or more devices, but I still see a lot of clocks and watches for sale in the stores. Pretty big sections devoted to them in fact which wouldn't be the case if no one was buying them.Helen

I recently had to replace both a wristwatch and an ancient clock radio. I was happy to find that in spite of all the modern technology now available (clock radios with Bluetooth, watches that will check your heart rate) I was able to buy basic versions of both.

[TechniSol]

It is funny about having so many time displays and still wearing a watch. Back in the day, I usually sported a stainless steel calculator or memory bank watch because it was a convenient way to carry a bunch of necessary phone numbers, but now with a cellphone no need for that. So, I should be watchless, but instead wear a nice slim and reasonably stylish electromechanical watch. Why? Convenience as much as it being a decent looking accessory -I'm a compulsive clock checker. I guess the point is that despite the cellphone being so much more capable, I still prefer wearing the watch. I think it will remain much the same for many with e-ink readers. Personally, I've yet to see the LCD display that doesn't glare or isn't just a shade too bright for my taste even with the display brightness cranked down.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

It is funny about having so many time displays and still wearing a watch. Back in the day, I usually sported a stainless steel calculator or memory bank watch because it was a convenient way to carry a bunch of necessary phone numbers, but now with a cellphone no need for that. So, I should be watchless, but instead wear a nice slim and reasonably stylish electromechanical watch. Why? Convenience as much as it being a decent looking accessory -I'm a compulsive clock checker. I guess the point is that despite the cellphone being so much more capable, I still prefer wearing the watch. I think it will remain much the same for many with e-ink readers. Personally, I've yet to see the LCD display that doesn't glare or isn't just a shade too bright for my taste even with the display brightness cranked down.

not quite a good comparison at all: I've not worn a watch in years and don't miss it at all, stylish or not.

checking the hours on an LCD display for a moment is acceptable, reading on it for long periods of time is not. My smartphone is far more convenient than my kindle, but not for reading at all.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

not quite a good comparison at all: I've not worn a watch in years and don't miss it at all, stylish or not.

checking the hours on an LCD display for a moment is acceptable, reading on it for long periods of time is not. My smartphone is far more convenient than my kindle, but not for reading at all.

To me, having to pull some electronic gadget out of my pocket or handbag to check the time is like going back to the days of our great-grandfathers and their pocket watches. I like having the time right there in view on my wrist.

[bazzz]

I'd buy an 8" - 10" 1920x1440 eReader with *good* PDF capabilities (probably Android based), backlight & contrast à la Paperwhite 2, and much faster CPU than my current Kobo Aura HD in a heartbeat.

I hate reading on my iPads (currently 5th gen. with GoodReader). A big, fast eInk PDF-consuming machine would be perfect for me. I'd pay $300-$500 for something like that.

Oh... add cropping capabilities like with GoodReader. Then we're talking.