Who's Considering Returning Their Kindle? - Page 3

Mrgauth · 03-19-2009, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

Yep, I already picked up a 505.

I would love to get a 505, but it needs one more font size. The biggest is just a tad too small. Having looked at them all, looks like I am out for this generation as none of them suit me. My hopes were on the 505 as a last resort til I saw only 3 font sizes.

Maybe in a year...

twister · 03-19-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy81

No offense but to the people complaining didn't you purchase it knowing you would be buying books from Amazon. Isn't that the point? If you didn't want to be locked into buying from Amazon you should have chosen something other than the Kindle in the first place. I've been considering both Sony's reader and the Kindle but decided on the latter because I would rather shop at Amazon. It seems kind of pointless to complain considering you had the same choice.

I kind of agree with Jeremy. I got the Kindle 2 because of the huge selection of books on Amazon at reasonable prices and its wireless feature. I also bought it for its file support (including unprotected MOBI and PRC). In comparing books and prices with mobipocket I really do not see me wanting to buy books from mobipocket over Amazon. I bought 100+ books from ereader over the last 4 years and feel it was a waste. I can't transfer the books legally. I want to buy books from a company that I think will be around for a long time, have a huge selection of books, and have cutting edge reader hardware. Amazon fits that bill. If I'm going to invest in e-books I want it to be a company like Amazon.

I'm not happy with Amazon's stance on DMR or the what they did with mobileread but I'm not going with another reader (or not one at all) because of it. No offense to anyone who has a Sony Reader but I'm not going to settle for a Sony Reader and less choices with books because of what Amazon has done. In my mind the Kindle has a lot more going for it than the Sony Readers. Also, In my mind Sony really is not any different when it comes to this stuff (the are actually probably worse).

kilofox · 03-19-2009, 11:06 PM

If I had to return an item for every time a company did something that I disagreed with.... I'd own nothing.

fugazied · 03-19-2009, 11:46 PM

I'm not happy at all with the actions of Amazon, but I am too invested in the Kindle now to return (bought a number of books for it). However I am going to write them a letter regarding this.

DRM is just ridiculous, it generally does nothing more than annoy legitimate users of the material. Have they learnt nothing from the music, film and gaming industries.

Alisa · 03-20-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwaldron

Yes, Amazon is acting very Apple-like, and I don't mean that as a compliment.

Yep. And I wonder how many of the folks here saying they want to dump their Kindles still love their iPods. I don't own an iPod and I buy my music DRM-free because there are enough options to do that. With books, there just aren't enough of the books I like available without DRM so I make the compromise. I don't like it, but I'm hoping that if enough of us support ebooks, we will eventually move the market to the same level of sanity we're now starting to see in music. I debated waiting until I could get books without compromising this principle, but the ebook market just doesn't have the strength of the music market. I figured if I wanted to help it succeed, I needed to invest early. The fact is, I'm going to be buying books with DRM regardless of whether it's from Amazon or Sony or Fictionwise. DRM is evil and I'm participating in the evil.

As many have said, Amazon seems to be going after KindlePID, not KindleFix and even though igorsk didn't write it to be used to crack DRM, it is used to do so. They didn't send us a DMCA takedown for the cracking script because we've been quite circumspect in not allowing linking to it. It will be as futile as all Apple's DMCA takedowns. It's out there and they won't get rid of it. For all the people here saying Amazon is keeping you from buying other content, it's no more so than Apple. You can put other music on your iPod if it's DRM-free. You can put other books on your Kindle if they're DRM-free. So while I don't like either of their DRM policies, if you're getting rid of your Kindle over this, you should probably get rid of your iPod, too.

demoric · 03-20-2009, 03:19 PM

I will be keeping my Kindle 2. I purchased it because I liked the concept of a 3G digital reader from a company who I feel will support it with alot of new content. I would like to see a future update support epub, but as it stands mobi is a fine format for drm free literature. The few recent events that I don't like is the allowing TTS to be restricted, and the DMCA notice for the scripts that allowed conversion of DRM'ed mobi books. However, neither of these are enough for me to return my reader.

TallMomof2 · 03-20-2009, 07:23 PM

I've been going back and forth but I've decided to keep my K2. Mainly because I really like the navigation with the little joy stick. Plus the way periodicals are formatted to take advantage of the navigation has me hooked.

I absolutely hate DRM but I have more than enough open formatted content to keep me reading for years without having to buy any books from Amazon. I'll still jump on the free offerings from Amazon but I won't rent any more books.

grisjuan · 03-21-2009, 10:40 AM

I'm heading to the UPS store in a minute to send back my Kindle2.

I had a love/hate relationship with it. I loved not having to buy/ship/store/dispose of physical books. I hated the ghosting, the form factor, the live keyboard while reading, and Amazon's takedown notice to MobileRead.

None of my 'hates' by themselves would have caused me to return it, but taken together they tipped the balance.

radiationman · 03-21-2009, 04:37 PM

I'm still on the fence.

I still really like the device, and some features (dictionary lookup in particular) that are missing on the Sony devices I've come to really like. I downloaded the scripts in question before the notice, found the instructions elsewhere and can use them if needed. (and please don't ask me for them, I'd rather not run afoul of the management here

I'm rather fond of the place).

But the implications that the takedown may have still have me concerned/upset...

And yes I'm an iPhone and iPod user and I don't think these are the same. Yes Apple has their own closed system in place - but Apple has never issued DMCA takedowns to site where people were able to obtain legal content outside of the Apple infrastructure to place on iPods. Heck Apple hasn't issued takedowns to the unlockers or jailbrakers either - a carrier or two has taken action legal against them, but not Apple.

Boston · 03-21-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

Yep. And I wonder how many of the folks here saying they want to dump their Kindles still love their iPods.

I am not dumping my K1. Too much invested in it and I want the ability to share books with my mother (for whom Whispernet is a key feature to being able to use). However, if I were new to the market and a single-user, I would consider a Sony PRS-505 right now.

I never owned an iPod for the same reason. In fact, I own a Cowon player specifically (and only) because it plays more formats that most other players. While I find having to convert a nuisance, I hate being locked in even more.

Alisa · 03-21-2009, 08:58 PM

They've sent takedowns to people who simply wanted to use another app to control the iPod and they ban iPhone owners from buying apps not sold by their app store.

As for Sony (directed at Boston), I'm not a fan of the company even aside from their whole rootkit fiasco, but their Reader division so far seems fairly benign. I really would miss the dictionary support, though. At least the 700 has search. I'm really surprised after all this time they haven't added dictionary lookup. BTW, I have a Cowon, too, since it plays Ogg.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiationman

I'm still on the fence.

I still really like the device, and some features (dictionary lookup in particular) that are missing on the Sony devices I've come to really like. I downloaded the scripts in question before the notice, found the instructions elsewhere and can use them if needed. (and please don't ask me for them, I'd rather not run afoul of the management here

I'm rather fond of the place).

But the implications that the takedown may have still have me concerned/upset...

And yes I'm an iPhone and iPod user and I don't think these are the same. Yes Apple has their own closed system in place - but Apple has never issued DMCA takedowns to site where people were able to obtain legal content outside of the Apple infrastructure to place on iPods. Heck Apple hasn't issued takedowns to the unlockers or jailbrakers either - a carrier or two has taken action legal against them, but not Apple.

Edit: More DMCA Apple fun

They apparently also issued a takedown to sites for discussing how to load Mac OS on non-Apple hardware.

radiationman · 03-21-2009, 10:32 PM

First we're talking about iPods not Macs - always were.

However, Apple blocks non-Apple iPhone apps like Amazon has blocked content from outside their store up until last week... Apple hasn't taken legal action against the jailbrakers or unlockers - they haven't forced the sites with the downloads for the jailbreaking or unlocking downloads to pull their software either. However a mobile phone carrier did take legal action against an unlocker.

It's one thing to make firmware changes that disable or block hacks, if you don't want folks cracking your device don't leave the holes in the code that let them do it... But to leave the holes and instead take legal action to block users from taking advantage of device functionality is lazyness.

Using the scripts in question don't break or circumvent any form of copy protection that's on the device or even built in to the Kindle's OS. Amazon's copy protection isn't being circumvented.

As for Apple going after those who seek to load OS-X on non-Apple machines, well Apple for better or worse decided long ago to stop allowing Mac clones and don't license their software to those who would clone their systems. In the meantime these folks are in fact circumventing copy protection that has been put in place to prevent OS-X from being loaded on non-Apple hardware.

Don't get me wrong, I think Apple's behavior can definitely be considered anti-competitive and they've done more than their fair share of anti-consumer moves, but Amazon's mishandling of Mobileread can't be compared with Apple...

Alisa · 03-21-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiationman

It's one thing to make firmware changes that disable or block hacks, if you don't want folks cracking your device don't leave the holes in the code that let them do it... But to leave the holes and instead take legal action to block users from taking advantage of device functionality is lazyness.

Both the DMCA takedowns I listed were them trying to get discussions taken down. They have issued takedowns for cracks but I didn't post those. Yes, they do sometimes push firmware to break the latest jailbreak or keep people from using iTunes software alternatives, but these were takedowns just for people talking. I don't see how that is much different from what Amazon did here.

kyliedork · 03-22-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiationman

I think Apple's behavior can definitely be considered anti-competitive and they've done more than their fair share of anti-consumer moves, but Amazon's mishandling of Mobileread can't be compared with Apple...

Yes, but sony can't be compared with apple or amazon, they have a master's degree from asshole university in rootkit debacles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_So...ection_scandal

radamo · 03-22-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilofox

If I had to return an item for every time a company did something that I disagreed with.... I'd own nothing.

So true...
RA

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03-19-2009, 11:06 PM	#33
kilofox Connoisseur Posts: 71 Karma: 217 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Kindle 2	If I had to return an item for every time a company did something that I disagreed with.... I'd own nothing.

03-19-2009, 11:46 PM	#34
fugazied Wizard Posts: 1,305 Karma: 1958 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: iPod Touch	I'm not happy at all with the actions of Amazon, but I am too invested in the Kindle now to return (bought a number of books for it). However I am going to write them a letter regarding this. DRM is just ridiculous, it generally does nothing more than annoy legitimate users of the material. Have they learnt nothing from the music, film and gaming industries.

03-20-2009, 03:19 PM	#36
demoric Kindle 2 User Posts: 98 Karma: 496 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: S.E. Kansas Device: Kindle 2	I will be keeping my Kindle 2. I purchased it because I liked the concept of a 3G digital reader from a company who I feel will support it with alot of new content. I would like to see a future update support epub, but as it stands mobi is a fine format for drm free literature. The few recent events that I don't like is the allowing TTS to be restricted, and the DMCA notice for the scripts that allowed conversion of DRM'ed mobi books. However, neither of these are enough for me to return my reader.

03-20-2009, 07:23 PM	#37
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	I've been going back and forth but I've decided to keep my K2. Mainly because I really like the navigation with the little joy stick. Plus the way periodicals are formatted to take advantage of the navigation has me hooked. I absolutely hate DRM but I have more than enough open formatted content to keep me reading for years without having to buy any books from Amazon. I'll still jump on the free offerings from Amazon but I won't rent any more books.

03-21-2009, 10:40 AM	#38
grisjuan Enthusiast Posts: 38 Karma: 404 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Washington, DC Device: iPhone 3GS	I'm heading to the UPS store in a minute to send back my Kindle2. I had a love/hate relationship with it. I loved not having to buy/ship/store/dispose of physical books. I hated the ghosting, the form factor, the live keyboard while reading, and Amazon's takedown notice to MobileRead. None of my 'hates' by themselves would have caused me to return it, but taken together they tipped the balance.

03-21-2009, 04:37 PM	#39
radiationman Connoisseur Posts: 83 Karma: 40 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle 2	I'm still on the fence. I still really like the device, and some features (dictionary lookup in particular) that are missing on the Sony devices I've come to really like. I downloaded the scripts in question before the notice, found the instructions elsewhere and can use them if needed. (and please don't ask me for them, I'd rather not run afoul of the management here I'm rather fond of the place). But the implications that the takedown may have still have me concerned/upset... And yes I'm an iPhone and iPod user and I don't think these are the same. Yes Apple has their own closed system in place - but Apple has never issued DMCA takedowns to site where people were able to obtain legal content outside of the Apple infrastructure to place on iPods. Heck Apple hasn't issued takedowns to the unlockers or jailbrakers either - a carrier or two has taken action legal against them, but not Apple.

03-21-2009, 10:32 PM	#42
radiationman Connoisseur Posts: 83 Karma: 40 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kindle 2	First we're talking about iPods not Macs - always were. However, Apple blocks non-Apple iPhone apps like Amazon has blocked content from outside their store up until last week... Apple hasn't taken legal action against the jailbrakers or unlockers - they haven't forced the sites with the downloads for the jailbreaking or unlocking downloads to pull their software either. However a mobile phone carrier did take legal action against an unlocker. It's one thing to make firmware changes that disable or block hacks, if you don't want folks cracking your device don't leave the holes in the code that let them do it... But to leave the holes and instead take legal action to block users from taking advantage of device functionality is lazyness. Using the scripts in question don't break or circumvent any form of copy protection that's on the device or even built in to the Kindle's OS. Amazon's copy protection isn't being circumvented. As for Apple going after those who seek to load OS-X on non-Apple machines, well Apple for better or worse decided long ago to stop allowing Mac clones and don't license their software to those who would clone their systems. In the meantime these folks are in fact circumventing copy protection that has been put in place to prevent OS-X from being loaded on non-Apple hardware. Don't get me wrong, I think Apple's behavior can definitely be considered anti-competitive and they've done more than their fair share of anti-consumer moves, but Amazon's mishandling of Mobileread can't be compared with Apple...

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