Page numbers on PDF files (Icarus Excel)

asalet_r · 03-18-2014, 05:44 AM

Hi
Im using an Icarus Excel for academic purposes that is why I need it mostly for PDF files. Im taking anotations and then trying to extract them but I have recognized that page numbers are incorrect.
"real page numer" and "shown page number" on books are mostly different.. It comes due "foreword" "contents" etc. For example first page of introduction is shown as 1 but "real page number" is 11. Icarus referres to second choice (in this case page 11) which is totally useless for citation. I guess This problem can be solved with a simple firmware update. Because Im using Kindle since 2 years and there is no problem like that.
I hope I gave enough information to explain the problem.
Thanks

P.S. I have just installed latest firmware of M92, still same problem.

Mono · 03-18-2014, 09:44 AM

Well, I do not know how Kindle handles it.

I am affraid there is not a simple solution for all cases. I am not sure, if pdf file structure has direct means to tell "shown" page number. I sort of doubt it, but I may be wrong.

The numbering schemes in documents may vary quite a lot. It may use arabic numbers, roman numbers, alphabeth, ... And within one document different numbering schemes may be used. Make it even more difficult, the numbering counter may be reset at each chapter or even subchapter. The shown page number may look like C-XIX.8.2.

I guess, software should be able to guess the shown page number, but what if the guess is wrong?

I thing, your request is quite sound, but I wanted to point out that the solution is not as easy as it seems to be at the first sight (to substract certain offset from "real" page number to get "shown" one). I guess, it could be implemented in a way, that shown page becomes part of the text (as prefix) that goes to "heading". User could correct it if the automatic guess is wrong.

This might be easy to implement, I guess. If Onyx is going to improve M92 firmware.

vvilmos · 03-18-2014, 01:38 PM

The software does not have to guess anything because the offset is contained in the "metadata" of the pdf file.
The metadata can be changed e.g. with BeCyPDFMetaEdit (free):
http://www.becyhome.de/download_eng.htm#becypdfmetaedit

A workaround would be to delete the front matter of the file
such that logical page will be equal to the physical page.
(When done with annotations, the front matter could be added again).

Mono · 03-19-2014, 06:16 AM

OK, if it is in metadata then it may work for certain type of documents. Say, most of them. But not all.

Many manuals use numbering scheme chapter, page number. In that case just offset is not enought. The page numbers look e.g. like I-1, I-2, ... II-1, II-2,...

markom · 03-19-2014, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mono

OK, if it is in metadata then it may work for certain type of documents. Say, most of them. But not all.

Many manuals use numbering scheme chapter, page number. In that case just offset is not enought. The page numbers look e.g. like I-1, I-2, ... II-1, II-2,...

Or there may be some pages (e.g. with pictures only) that are not numbered at all, but we can paginate the whole pdf anew using BeCyPDFMetaEdit pagination tool(Pages Tab), it takes about five minutes for average complex book and newbie.

First we have to find out where the Roman and Arabic numbers start and end in our book and are there any gaps like pictures without numbers etc. and then using add button select appropriate values to repaginate book anew.

e.g. let's say our book is 16 pages long, with cover, next three pages not numbered, next four pages Roman letters, other pages numbered in Arabic.

You then click add button, choose from page 1, style no-numbering, offset 1, prefix (you type in Cover or something similar).

Then click on add button again, from page (choose 2), style no-numbering, off set 3 (because there are three non-numbered pages), prefix (you can leave empty).

Click on add button, from page 5 (because there is cover + three empty pages before), style Roman, off set 4.

Click on add button, from page 9, style Arabic, off set (you can leave it as 1 and the pages till the end of book will be numbered incrementally).

vvilmos · 03-19-2014, 12:38 PM

The scripting program does not look at the pagination in the metadata
supposing (correctly!) that anyway many documents do not contain the
pagination metadata. The only solution seems to be cutting the document
as I have mentioned.

markom · 03-19-2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvilmos

The scripting program does not look at the pagination in the metadata
supposing (correctly!) that anyway many documents do not contain the
pagination metadata. The only solution seems to be cutting the document
as I have mentioned.

Yep, and also adding blank pages if there are some missing and deleting some pages if there are those that are not numbered.

Or maybe save annotations from that book in the folder with added -10 in the folder name, meaning every citation has wrong page i.e. 10 should be deducted from that number.

Mono · 03-20-2014, 07:14 AM

OK, so the result is, that it is not so easy and straiforward, as is seems to be...

Probably the only thing, that will work for sure is, if the user writes the page number directly to annotation "header" by himself.

asalet_r · 03-21-2014, 04:24 AM

Thank you all for answers,
I have installed latest M92 firmware and nothing has changed.
I have writed to customer support, I told them the problem detailed with email attachments but Im afraid they are not aware of problem.
Everybody knows that page referring for academic purposes is very important, it must be correct. Deleting some pages or adding page difference on title is not so easy for every single book or article.
With "shown" numbers I mean the number of page itself and not physically writed number on it.
I do page number changes with Adobe Acrobat Pro. For example all pages till "introduction" have roman numbers and latin numbers start on first page of introduction.
Well, Im using Kindle since few years and it recognizes difference between logical and physical page number. It shows physical page number on right-bottom and logical number on center-bottom.
I dont understand, Since Kindle DX can recognize that with a few years old firmware why M92 cant do that!
Except that I really loved this ereader, everything is perfect! but this coins made it useless for me

Its a shame!

P.S. Im using a 3.3. firmware hack on Kindle DX to higlight text on PDF. But even older kindle firmwares can recognize page difference.

03-18-2014, 05:44 AM	#1
asalet_r Member Posts: 14 Karma: 18852 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kindle DX, Icarus Excel	Page numbers on PDF files (Icarus Excel) Hi Im using an Icarus Excel for academic purposes that is why I need it mostly for PDF files. Im taking anotations and then trying to extract them but I have recognized that page numbers are incorrect. "real page numer" and "shown page number" on books are mostly different.. It comes due "foreword" "contents" etc. For example first page of introduction is shown as 1 but "real page number" is 11. Icarus referres to second choice (in this case page 11) which is totally useless for citation. I guess This problem can be solved with a simple firmware update. Because Im using Kindle since 2 years and there is no problem like that. I hope I gave enough information to explain the problem. Thanks P.S. I have just installed latest firmware of M92, still same problem. Last edited by asalet_r; 03-18-2014 at 06:32 AM.

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03-18-2014, 09:44 AM	#2
Mono Mono Posts: 699 Karma: 13333 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Boox M92	Well, I do not know how Kindle handles it. I am affraid there is not a simple solution for all cases. I am not sure, if pdf file structure has direct means to tell "shown" page number. I sort of doubt it, but I may be wrong. The numbering schemes in documents may vary quite a lot. It may use arabic numbers, roman numbers, alphabeth, ... And within one document different numbering schemes may be used. Make it even more difficult, the numbering counter may be reset at each chapter or even subchapter. The shown page number may look like C-XIX.8.2. I guess, software should be able to guess the shown page number, but what if the guess is wrong? I thing, your request is quite sound, but I wanted to point out that the solution is not as easy as it seems to be at the first sight (to substract certain offset from "real" page number to get "shown" one). I guess, it could be implemented in a way, that shown page becomes part of the text (as prefix) that goes to "heading". User could correct it if the automatic guess is wrong. This might be easy to implement, I guess. If Onyx is going to improve M92 firmware.

03-18-2014, 01:38 PM	#3
vvilmos Connoisseur Posts: 50 Karma: 25754 Join Date: Jun 2012 Device: Onyx M92, K3	The software does not have to guess anything because the offset is contained in the "metadata" of the pdf file. The metadata can be changed e.g. with BeCyPDFMetaEdit (free): http://www.becyhome.de/download_eng.htm#becypdfmetaedit A workaround would be to delete the front matter of the file such that logical page will be equal to the physical page. (When done with annotations, the front matter could be added again).

03-19-2014, 06:16 AM	#4
Mono Mono Posts: 699 Karma: 13333 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Boox M92	OK, if it is in metadata then it may work for certain type of documents. Say, most of them. But not all. Many manuals use numbering scheme chapter, page number. In that case just offset is not enought. The page numbers look e.g. like I-1, I-2, ... II-1, II-2,...

03-19-2014, 12:38 PM	#6
vvilmos Connoisseur Posts: 50 Karma: 25754 Join Date: Jun 2012 Device: Onyx M92, K3	The scripting program does not look at the pagination in the metadata supposing (correctly!) that anyway many documents do not contain the pagination metadata. The only solution seems to be cutting the document as I have mentioned.

03-20-2014, 07:14 AM	#8
Mono Mono Posts: 699 Karma: 13333 Join Date: Jan 2012 Device: Boox M92	OK, so the result is, that it is not so easy and straiforward, as is seems to be... Probably the only thing, that will work for sure is, if the user writes the page number directly to annotation "header" by himself.

03-21-2014, 04:24 AM	#9
asalet_r Member Posts: 14 Karma: 18852 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: Kindle DX, Icarus Excel	Thank you all for answers, I have installed latest M92 firmware and nothing has changed. I have writed to customer support, I told them the problem detailed with email attachments but Im afraid they are not aware of problem. Everybody knows that page referring for academic purposes is very important, it must be correct. Deleting some pages or adding page difference on title is not so easy for every single book or article. With "shown" numbers I mean the number of page itself and not physically writed number on it. I do page number changes with Adobe Acrobat Pro. For example all pages till "introduction" have roman numbers and latin numbers start on first page of introduction. Well, Im using Kindle since few years and it recognizes difference between logical and physical page number. It shows physical page number on right-bottom and logical number on center-bottom. I dont understand, Since Kindle DX can recognize that with a few years old firmware why M92 cant do that! Except that I really loved this ereader, everything is perfect! but this coins made it useless for me Its a shame! P.S. Im using a 3.3. firmware hack on Kindle DX to higlight text on PDF. But even older kindle firmwares can recognize page difference.

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