FTC to hold hearings on DRM.. - Page 3

tompe · 01-28-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I wasn't totally disagreeing with the conclusion, just the argument that said all eBook DRM has been cracked anyway. Scanned eBooks are fraught with scan errors that are not corrected which makes them unsuitable for many users anyway which is a possible counter to your conclusion.

To me it seems that if you "scan" from memory instead of from paper you can do some tricks so you do not get any errors or very few errors. Also the process is totally automatic.

DaleDe · 01-28-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

To me it seems that if you "scan" from memory instead of from paper you can do some tricks so you do not get any errors or very few errors. Also the process is totally automatic.

If you tear apart the book the process is also totally automatic. I am not sure the errors are much different if you are talking about a new book.

Dale

Steven Lyle Jordan · 01-29-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Scanned eBooks are fraught with scan errors that are not corrected which makes them unsuitable for many users anyway which is a possible counter to your conclusion. However, I understand that many publisher eBooks have similar problems currently.

Right. And that's a procedural problem, that is, the method can be improved to remove errors (better scanning SW/procedures, copy-checking afterward, etc). I have scanned books and documents with 100% content accuracy, following a single simple step, copying and enlarging pages to letter size and running those clean new pages through industrial scanners, which markedly improved scan readability.

As long as a DRM-locked document can still be reproduced, even through scanning, DRM is ultimately an ineffective tool.

Robotech_Master · 02-03-2009, 10:33 AM

The FTC has extended the deadline for comments to February 9th.

If you haven't gotten a comment in yet, you still have a chance!

Shaggy · 02-03-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I wasn't totally disagreeing with the conclusion, just the argument that said all eBook DRM has been cracked anyway.
Dale

Depends on your definition of "cracked". Most of the time the DRM is merely circumvented. IE, there are many DRM schemes out there where if you have the original key you can strip the DRM off. For example, one person buys the ebook, uses their key to strip off the DRM, and then distributes non-DRM copies. There's really no way they can prevent that. It's unnecessary to "crack" the encryption method in order to defeat DRM, so most people don't bother trying.

The basic premise is that person A "protects" something so that person B (the legitimate user) can access it, but that person C (the "pirate") can not. However, if B and C are the same person, then the DRM fails completely. It just becomes a cat and mouse game of different ways to access the content. There is no way that DRM can stop it.

Robotech_Master · 02-03-2009, 01:52 PM

Yeah, most of the time when someone mentions a "crack" what they mean is an unrestricted unlocker—feed it the encrypted file plus your authorized eReader credit card number, or your authorized Mobipocket device ID, and it spits out an unlocked copy for you instead of only opening it enough for you to read.

Robotech_Master · 02-12-2009, 04:28 PM

Just thought folks might be interested to know that the FTC has apparently received 700 public comments about DRM.

I clicked on a few of them at random, and found they were by and large anti-DRM. I didn't really have time to go through them all.

Greg Anos · 02-12-2009, 08:15 PM

I will note that mine was not there. i don't know why. I sent it to the proer email address....

zelda_pinwheel · 02-12-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

I will note that mine was not there. i don't know why. I sent it to the proer email address....

maybe there are other comments which are not public, and yours is among them ? or maybe they haven't posted everything yet ? i hope so. it was a good letter, and it would really be a shame if it weren't included.

Greg Anos · 02-12-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

maybe there are other comments which are not public, and yours is among them ? or maybe they haven't posted everything yet ? i hope so. it was a good letter, and it would really be a shame if it weren't included.

Teach me to do a good deed.....

DaleDe · 02-16-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Depends on your definition of "cracked". Most of the time the DRM is merely circumvented. IE, there are many DRM schemes out there where if you have the original key you can strip the DRM off. For example, one person buys the ebook, uses their key to strip off the DRM, and then distributes non-DRM copies. There's really no way they can prevent that. It's unnecessary to "crack" the encryption method in order to defeat DRM, so most people don't bother trying.

The basic premise is that person A "protects" something so that person B (the legitimate user) can access it, but that person C (the "pirate") can not. However, if B and C are the same person, then the DRM fails completely. It just becomes a cat and mouse game of different ways to access the content. There is no way that DRM can stop it.

However, neither LRX or Adobe products can be "cracked" using the method you described thus the premise that all have been cracked is erroneous. There are many others that have not been cracked in this fashion.

Dale

zelda_pinwheel · 02-16-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

However, neither LRX or Adobe products can be "cracked" using the method you described thus the premise that all have been cracked is erroneous. There are many others that have not been cracked in this fashion.

Dale

...so far. i think it will happen sooner or later.

DaleDe · 02-16-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

...so far. i think it will happen sooner or later.

a lot of people have tried to crack Adobe but no one yet. It seems to be pretty solid and publishers seem to be betting it won't be. The idea that it is only a matter of time may be true but then we all may be long dead when it happens.

Dale

zelda_pinwheel · 02-16-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

a lot of people have tried to crack Adobe but no one yet. It seems to be pretty solid and publishers seem to be betting it won't be. The idea that it is only a matter of time may be true but then we all may be long dead when it happens.

Dale

it might be a lot closer than you think though. all it takes is one person to figure it out.

DaleDe · 02-16-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

it might be a lot closer than you think though. all it takes is one person to figure it out.

Certainly true but don't hold your breath. You seem to be in the camp that every DRM method does not work but I think that is just wishful thinking.

Dale

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02-03-2009, 10:33 AM	#34
Robotech_Master Fanatic Posts: 514 Karma: 2954711 Join Date: May 2006	The FTC has extended the deadline for comments to February 9th. If you haven't gotten a comment in yet, you still have a chance!

02-03-2009, 01:52 PM	#36
Robotech_Master Fanatic Posts: 514 Karma: 2954711 Join Date: May 2006	Yeah, most of the time when someone mentions a "crack" what they mean is an unrestricted unlocker—feed it the encrypted file plus your authorized eReader credit card number, or your authorized Mobipocket device ID, and it spits out an unlocked copy for you instead of only opening it enough for you to read.

02-12-2009, 04:28 PM	#37
Robotech_Master Fanatic Posts: 514 Karma: 2954711 Join Date: May 2006	Just thought folks might be interested to know that the FTC has apparently received 700 public comments about DRM. I clicked on a few of them at random, and found they were by and large anti-DRM. I didn't really have time to go through them all.

02-12-2009, 08:15 PM	#38
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,248 Karma: 35000000 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	I will note that mine was not there. i don't know why. I sent it to the proer email address....