Best Reader for Annotations+Highlights: Saving, Searching, and Transferring?

[crk]

Hi!

The Short:

I am thinking of making my first E-Reader purchase, and I'd be grateful for advice about which manufacturers and/or models are best for storage, searching, and exporting/transferring annotations and highlights.


The longer:

One big reason I've been hesitant to make an e-reader purchase is that I am a notorious under-liner and annotator, and I'd hate to lose the spots I mark, whether to a spontaneous hardware malfunction or to an import/export hiccup relative to syncing when upgrading to a new device down the line. I still look back at notes from middle school! I've been considering kindle devices, kobo devices, and boox devices: are there differences in function between models available for sale new AND manufacturers or just between manufacturers?

The Specific (and therefore longer still!)
1.) My main concern is backing up annotations and highlights so that in the event of hardware failure or eventual upgrade, I don't lose them.
2.) I'd rather sync manually than automatically, and keep connection to internet minimal, unless no reader makes that easy.
3.) I'd like to be able to ensure annotations and highlights transfer upon moving to any possible new device
3a.) I am also interested in convenient global/library-wide search functionality of notes and highlights (in case, for example I know a word or phrase but can't recall where in the book or which book the word/phrase occurred in).
4.) I am moderately saavy: never rooted a phone, but have experience with windows registry edits and tweaking of OS settings to optimize audio performance.
5.) Quality of note-input interface is significant factor, but I tend to underline/highlight more than I add comments.


Thanks,

CRK

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by crk

The Short:

I am thinking of making my first E-Reader purchase, and I'd be grateful for advice about which manufacturers and/or models are best for storage, searching, and exporting/transferring annotations and highlights.


The longer:

One big reason I've been hesitant to make an e-reader purchase is that I am a notorious under-liner and annotator, and I'd hate to lose the spots I mark, whether to a spontaneous hardware malfunction or to an import/export hiccup relative to syncing when upgrading to a new device down the line. I still look back at notes from middle school! I've been considering kindle devices, kobo devices, and boox devices: are there differences in function between models available for sale new AND manufacturers or just between manufacturers?

The Specific (and therefore longer still!)
1.) My main concern is backing up annotations and highlights so that in the event of hardware failure or eventual upgrade, I don't lose them.
2.) I'd rather sync manually than automatically, and keep connection to internet minimal, unless no reader makes that easy.
3.) I'd like to be able to ensure annotations and highlights transfer upon moving to any possible new device
3a.) I am also interested in convenient global/library-wide search functionality of notes and highlights (in case, for example I know a word or phrase but can't recall where in the book or which book the word/phrase occurred in).
4.) I am moderately saavy: never rooted a phone, but have experience with windows registry edits and tweaking of OS settings to optimize audio performance.
5.) Quality of note-input interface is significant factor, but I tend to underline/highlight more than I add comments.

I can only recommend Boox devices with a Wacom pen.
Underlining / comments in PDF files are saved directly in this.
Boox devices can also do it in other book formats - but how it works with the transfer, I don't know

[Quoth]

Some sort of 10" or larger device for PDFs, a decent LCD Android is about 1/4 price of a slower eink at that size.
OR
For real ebooks, a Kobo Libra (7") or Forma (8", though the extra cost over a Libra would pay for a 10" tablet.) with Calibre and Kobo Utilities. Version 4.23 Calibre if you are using DeDRM with Kindle ebooks until the python 3 port is completed for DeDRM.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

I can only recommend Boox devices with a Wacom pen.
Underlining / comments in PDF files are saved directly in this.
Boox devices can also do it in other book formats - but how it works with the transfer, I don't know

Originally Posted by Quoth

Some sort of 10" or larger device for PDFs, a decent LCD Android is about 1/4 price of a slower eink at that size.
OR
For real ebooks, a Kobo Libra (7") or Forma (8", though the extra cost over a Libra would pay for a 10" tablet.) with Calibre and Kobo Utilities. Version 4.23 Calibre if you are using DeDRM with Kindle ebooks until the python 3 port is completed for DeDRM.

Can either of these books do a "convenient global/library-wide search functionality of notes and highlights (in case, for example I know a word or phrase but can't recall where in the book or which book the word/phrase occurred in)."? I know that Kindle can, and it can also do everything else the OP asked for. The only caveat is that in order for the highlights and annotations to be saved seamlessly across all devices, the books must be bought from Amazon, and must be synced, as the annotations are stored in your Kindle cloud.

Highlights and annotations can be saved for books that are sideloaded, but it's a different procedure, and not as seamless - the highlights and annotations are not stored in the actual book. HOWEVER, since you can do a global search of all of your books, if you have a list of the highlights, it is easy to search for the source using your device.

Shari

[crk]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

I can only recommend Boox devices with a Wacom pen.
Underlining / comments in PDF files are saved directly in this.

Thanks for your response! I think this expresses what all my concerns are pointed toward: I want to save annotations/highlights etc directly in the document/book.

I think it seems safer to me to keep a single file for a book than to have separate files. I worry about losing track of the context/location for a note I make.

Also--a related question: is there any reason to have a preference for a "real" ebook format over PDF? I guess I assumed there'd be a reason to use ebook formats.

Thanks,
Chris

[Uncle Robin]

It's my understanding that the latest version of Calibre can save annotations into the ebook file itself. That means that one could use the reader of one's choice (Kobo, or whatever), and import those annotations into Calibre to create a modified copy of the ebook that includes the annotations.

[crk]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Some sort of 10" or larger device for PDFs, a decent LCD Android is about 1/4 price of a slower eink at that size.
OR
For real ebooks, a Kobo Libra (7") or Forma (8", though the extra cost over a Libra would pay for a 10" tablet.) with Calibre and Kobo Utilities. Version 4.23 Calibre if you are using DeDRM with Kindle ebooks until the python 3 port is completed for DeDRM.

Thanks!

If I used Kobo reader/calibre/kobo utilities, would the notes be saved in the same file as the text/book itself?

If not, would I be able to sideload the text and note file to a non-kobo reader if I switched to one later? I know this is hypothetical: who knows what would happen with future developments in tech etc. But this is my point, sort of, I want to future proof my library.

Thanks,

CRK

[crk]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

It's my understanding that the latest version of Calibre can save annotations into the ebook file itself. That means that one could use the reader of one's choice (Kobo, or whatever), and import those annotations into Calibre to create a modified copy of the ebook that includes the annotations.

Cool! If true, this would address, I think, my concerns. To be clear, would this work to a) annotate in Kobo b.) save new version with annotations c.) sideload annotation-version into a Kindle with Calibre?

Chris

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by crk

Cool! If true, this would address, I think, my concerns. To be clear, would this work to a) annotate in Kobo b.) save new version with annotations c.) sideload annotation-version into a Kindle with Calibre?

Chris

That is how I understand it, yes. You could confirm by asking in the Calibre forums, to be sure

[crk]

Originally Posted by shalym

... books must be bought from Amazon, and must be synced, as the annotations are stored in your Kindle cloud.

Highlights and annotations can be saved for books that are sideloaded, but it's a different procedure, and not as seamless - the highlights and annotations are not stored in the actual book. HOWEVER, since you can do a global search of all of your books, if you have a list of the highlights, it is easy to search for the source using your device.

Shari

Thanks, Shari. This points to why I've been wary of delving into Amazon's eco system. It seems like the annotation system/interface is user friendly so long as you stay in Amazon. But maybe I'm reading between the lines too much or unfairly.

CRK

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by crk

Thanks, Shari. This points to why I've been wary of delving into Amazon's eco system. It seems like the annotation system/interface is user friendly so long as you stay in Amazon. But maybe I'm reading between the lines too much or unfairly.

CRK

I don' think you are being unfair. I don't annotate much, but I was disappointed to discover that the few I did make on my Kindles (over several years) when I switched to Kobo. It's one of the reasons I'm making more use of Calibre and why I think the new "embedding" option it offers is promising. Especially as it will be device-agnostic.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

I don' think you are being unfair. I don't annotate much, but I was disappointed to discover that the few I did make on my Kindles (over several years) when I switched to Kobo. It's one of the reasons I'm making more use of Calibre and why I think the new "embedding" option it offers is promising. Especially as it will be device-agnostic.

Sorry, you have this wrong. The calibre viewer now supports annotations. These are stored in the calibre library database. They optionally be stored in a file inside some book formats, but, this is in a calibre format and not shown by any other reader application than the calibre viewer. If you shared the copy of the book with someone else, they would be able to see them. There is also an export function. I assume this could be used to transfer the annotations to someone else. But, it probably requires the same edition of the book

The Annotations plugin will fetch annotations from Kindles, Kobos and tolinos. It adds them as a comment-type column into the library. This is one-way - device to library only. When I have time, I intend to look at storing them as calibre annotations. But, that might only work for epubs on Kobo devices. The annotations that can be seen on the other devices are not stored in a way that can be linked to locations in the books. And Kepubs have problems as well.

I will probably look at restoring the annotations to a device, but, again, probably only Kobo devices and probably only epubs.

[Uncle Robin]

Thanks for the clarification, davidfor. I was wrong on every bit that mattered, I'm glad someone who knows was able to correct my misinformation

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by crk

I think this expresses what all my concerns are pointed toward: I want to save annotations/highlights etc directly in the document/book.

I think it seems safer to me to keep a single file for a book than to have separate files. I worry about losing track of the context/location for a note I make.

Also--a related question: is there any reason to have a preference for a "real" ebook format over PDF? I guess I assumed there'd be a reason to use ebook formats.

Underlining and handwritten comments are graphics.

And these can subsequently be inserted directly into the file in fixed layouts such as those available with pdfs - it can then be shown in all display programs / devices in the right place. Fixed formats cannot be changed in reading devices - changes in size are only possible using the zoom function.

For ebook readers, however, variable formats, in which, for example, the font sizes / types can be changed, are much more interesting (epub).
There is no way to insert such graphics at certain points in the file - comments can only be inserted / displayed via detours (several files).

And it is questionable to what extent future compatibility will exist.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

I don' think you are being unfair. I don't annotate much, but I was disappointed to discover that the few I did make on my Kindles (over several years) when I switched to Kobo. It's one of the reasons I'm making more use of Calibre and why I think the new "embedding" option it offers is promising. Especially as it will be device-agnostic.

Annotation export to PC is best via Kobo & Kobo Utilities. I've exported maybe over a thousand in the last two weeks. I have also the Kindle and it is much more limited.