07-30-2009, 02:04 AM | #46 |
Apeist
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07-30-2009, 02:23 AM | #47 | |||||
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Athiesm is as much a religion as not believing in magic slippers is a religion. Even the (completely wrong) definition of athiesm as a belief in the absence of deities doesn't qualify it as a religion any more than 'belief in God' is a religion in and of itself. Let's look at that definition: Quote:
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That last point relies on there being some kind of 'athiest ethics' that all athiests agree on, which there isn't. How is athiesm any different to not believing in walking trees? Would you assert that everything everyone doesn't believe in forms a religion? |
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07-30-2009, 04:20 AM | #48 | |
Wizard
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My daily absurdity-ration have already been met - and it's only 10 am... |
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07-30-2009, 04:35 AM | #49 |
Zealot
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Other examples:
Athiesm is a belief as a much as not stamp collecting is a hobby. Internally consistent is a must. I don't care what rules are broken in the setting up of the world ( and the degree to which it departs from our reality defines it as SF or F for me) - providing they are somehow explained during the course of the text. But the logical consequences of those rules must be adherred to. I'd have no problems with Manhatten being a spared zone in a nuclear war. Yes it's not likely, but it's the author's basic premise so that's ok. BUT the inhabitents must be able to support themselves, so eating escaped zoo animals in central park is fine, buying stuff from supermarkets isn't. Surviving for years/decades on what was left in the supermarket shelves also isn't! Many fantasy books are particularly rubbish at this. A small country that's nearly all inhospitabal terrain, with very very few farmers, markets etc to support he villages and towns that the hero conveniently passes through. |
07-30-2009, 04:43 AM | #50 |
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As long as it's internally consistant..... Does it NEED to be explained by munchkins working in tunnels under the city, using Star Trek like replicators to create stuff from waste and pushing it to the surface? Not really..... Again, sometimes it's enough that something just is...... Not often for me, though....
My "Life word" is Why?.... |
07-30-2009, 04:44 AM | #51 | |
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
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Fair point. Bad example.
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07-30-2009, 06:44 AM | #52 | |
Wizard
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I think Implied Spaces by Walter Jon Williams describes the need for internal consistency quite well.
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07-30-2009, 08:03 AM | #53 |
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The word is atheism, athe-ism... :grumblegrumble:
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07-30-2009, 08:14 AM | #54 |
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07-30-2009, 08:25 AM | #55 | |
the snarky blue one
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I believe it's the spelling he was pointing out: Athiesm (incorrect) as opposed to Atheism (correct.) Like the difference between nucular and nuclear. One is correct, the other is not. |
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07-30-2009, 08:27 AM | #56 |
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I was pointing out the two last words from which that one is derived, to explain why it is spelled that way. It has been spelled athiesm about 50 times in this thread.
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07-30-2009, 09:08 AM | #57 |
Wizard
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07-30-2009, 09:12 AM | #58 |
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Atheism as an abstract concept may lack a set of beliefs. Atheism as a real world organic paradigm individuals subscribe to tends to look pitifully homogeneous in some ways.
But only if one takes the loudest (and often less than brightest) followers and generalizes them to be representative of the whole. Which is something we'd no more do with atheists than we'd do with christians... right? - Ahi |
07-30-2009, 10:08 AM | #59 | |
Crab In The Dark
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I enjoy character driven fiction. That sounds like what you're reading. But at the same time, I like the world in which the story is taking place to be thoughtful and make sense. I can barely tolerate the ones where someone had a great world idea, it all fits together brilliantly but no story in it, they're just using 90% of the book to share their great world. There are a bunch of those too. Lots of writers Lots of reasons people become writers. They're not all good writers. We vote with our discretionary spending. heh, I think I wouldn't regret the time I lost reading it as much as I'd regret having encouraged them to write another book or the publisher for having no sense. Like I've mentioned, that's the thing about sci-fi and fantasy. If it's good writing, most of the stuff written in roughly the last 35 years and some beyond that - could have been written and published last week. |
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07-30-2009, 10:44 AM | #60 | |||
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That's true, but you can't compare a group that has no defining characteristics with a group this is defined quite specifically by a set of beliefs and values. Quote:
I don't defend such caricatures. The fact that you're trying to draw parallels between athiesm and religion hints that you don't know the difference. But back to the point: athiesm is not a religion, and athiesm is not a belief any more than not collecting stamps is a hobby. |
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