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Old 01-14-2009, 12:52 PM   #16
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I revised 23 slides for spelling and grammar, and recreated one based on JSWolfs suggestion about TOC and emdashes.

please point out any further errors to me so i can fix em.
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:40 PM   #17
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I have never noticed the txt error. but I have only done 10 or so books from txt. I believe you that it can happen sometimes. it didn't seem to mangle them in this case. and i did say to make it from HTML if available.
I have seen it happen. I don't think it happens all the time, but once is enough.

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Since Book cleaner is mentioned in the install thread, I have no need/want to mention it here.
I do think that whenever you mention setting up Book Designer, you need to also mention setting up Book Cleaner. Without Book Cleaner properly setup, you might as well not bother with Book Designer.

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never noticed missing toc elements when does this happen? in 65 books with these settings I never noticed anything wrong. thanks for the tip about em dashes (I know some people are really ana...Passionate about them... thanks for these tips.) I Will Make these changes.

the rest is personal preference, but as described in the last slide. I like my headers and footers.
I've seen the ToC thing happen before. In fact, it was because someone on the forum had a problem with the ToC that I figured it out.

As for em dashes, it's not about being anal or passionate about them. It's about being true tot he text. If there is an em dash in the original text, there should be an em dash showing on the Reader's screen.

As for the headers/footers, they are a personal thing or not. I just think they don't need to be there. They do take up page space and battery life and don't actually look good (IMHO).

As for lin spaces between paragraphs, why would anyone actually like them?
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
As for em dashes, it's not about being anal or passionate about them. It's about being true tot he text. If there is an em dash in the original text, there should be an em dash showing on the Reader's screen.

As for the headers/footers, they are a personal thing or not. I just think they don't need to be there. They do take up page space and battery life and don't actually look good (IMHO).

As for lin spaces between paragraphs, why would anyone actually like them?
I never even knew about an Emdash until i joined this site, so im in the... eh i dont really care how long the dash is there, catergory.

as for headers and footers. I just like them there.

Line spaces between paragraphs make me lose my place while reading much less often. The smaller groups of lines make it much easier for me to go from one line to the next, they give order to the page and let me just read comfortably. And I think most people agree with this because <P> tags in web do have the line space, and so does word 2007

As seen Here
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:28 AM   #19
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Seems we will have to agree to disagree about line spaces (nasty) and headers/footers (ugly).
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:55 AM   #20
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And I think most people agree with this because <P> tags in web do have the line space, and so does word 2007
You can set the space between paragraphs in Word to whatever suits your fancy. You're not forced to use the default, and it's trivial to change it. If you create a book with Book Designer, the space is fixed and other people have to live with it.

But in the end, you have the right to create the books you upload any way you want. And if you're creating them for personal use, all argument is academic.

Personally, I agree with JSWolf on all his points:

- em-dashes should be preserved
- space between paragraphs should be the same as the line space
- headers and footers are ugly and unnecessarily take up space
- book cleaner should be mentioned, if for any reason, then to help people who could otherwise miss it
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:04 AM   #21
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well, as usual we're discovering the many different tastes and preferences for book formatting. personally i am very attached to headers and footers and greatly appreciate having them. since they are usually in a smaller font than the body text they don't take up very much space and i think they make for a much nicer, more professional-looking book. they are also helpful for me because i often switch between several books, so when i come back to reading it's helpful to see right away which book is displayed, as i might have forgotten. but, of course, it's a question of taste, as we can see.

i also refuse to read an ebook without proper margins.
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:24 AM   #22
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well, as usual we're discovering the many different tastes and preferences for book formatting. personally i am very attached to headers and footers and greatly appreciate having them. since they are usually in a smaller font than the body text they don't take up very much space and i think they make for a much nicer, more professional-looking book. they are also helpful for me because i often switch between several books, so when i come back to reading it's helpful to see right away which book is displayed, as i might have forgotten. but, of course, it's a question of taste, as we can see.
I use a font size of 10 point. I get 27 lines per page that way. Now if I have headers and footers, I lose two lines per page. So for every 13 or 14 pages, I add one page. So take a 400 page eBook and I'll be adding 28 or 29 pages to the eBook.

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i also refuse to read an ebook without proper margins.
What do you consider to be proper margins? Again, this is subjective. I prefer no margins as it gives me more text per page. Have you seen any of the eBooks I've uploaded in LRF that have no margins? I've never had anyone ask for margins to any of the eBook I've posted to MR. What is it that margins do for you?
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:38 AM   #23
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I use a font size of 10 point. I get 27 lines per page that way. Now if I have headers and footers, I lose two lines per page. So for every 13 or 14 pages, I add one page. So take a 400 page eBook and I'll be adding 28 or 29 pages to the eBook.
i guess that 28 or 29 extra page turns on a 400 page book really seems trivial to me, especially with the long battery life of e-ink devices (but this is true even when i'm speaking of my eb1150 which has significantly shorter battery life, around 20 hours), and i appreciate more the comfort and aesthetic appeal of a nicely rendered header giving the title and author of the book.

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What do you consider to be proper margins? Again, this is subjective. I prefer no margins as it gives me more text per page. Have you seen any of the eBooks I've uploaded in LRF that have no margins? I've never had anyone ask for margins to any of the eBook I've posted to MR. What is it that margins do for you?
proper margins means margins allowing enough white space on the screen for the eye to comfortably turn at the ends of lines, and circulate along the edge of the text. i've been using a minimum of 10px for the 700, i'd rather have a bit more but i've reduced them slightly because of the relatively small screen. anything less than that is not enough for me.

i have seen ebooks with no margins, although probably not yours because i haven't downloaded many lrf books yet ; i find them very unpleasant to read, to the point that i prefer to create my own ebook with a margin instead of trying to read them. the text is cramped and shoved against the side of the screen, sometimes the edge is cut off, the eye has no place to move around and find landmarks, and it's very hard for the eye to keep its place in the page when going back and forth with no margins. i know some people think it's more important to use every possible mm of the screen, but i'd rather turn a few extra pages and have a more comfortable reading experience.
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:58 AM   #24
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I'll add a few Frames on book cleaner when I get a chance.

maybe JS wolf you can take some screen shots of your settings and a sample output, and I'll add it to the Wiki.

if you dont have a screen shot program I use this http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=775 which i love and it is portable
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:07 PM   #25
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proper margins means margins allowing enough white space on the screen for the eye to comfortably turn at the ends of lines, and circulate along the edge of the text. i've been using a minimum of 10px for the 700, i'd rather have a bit more but i've reduced them slightly because of the relatively small screen. anything less than that is not enough for me.
Do you want/need margins on the top and bottom? The default margins in Book Designer is 10px for the left/right and 0px for the top/bottom.

Personally, I don't have any issues with finding the next line when the text is to the edge of the screen. But I do understand your point of view.

One other thing I do is reduce the amout of space between the words. Not so much to cram more per line, but because I feel that overall, it looks nicer when justified as I get less lines with lousy word spacing.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:07 PM   #26
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I'll add a few Frames on book cleaner when I get a chance.

maybe JS wolf you can take some screen shots of your settings and a sample output, and I'll add it to the Wiki.

if you dont have a screen shot program I use this http://www.portablefreeware.com/?id=775 which i love and it is portable
Sure, I'll have a go at it sometime today or tomorrow.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:14 PM   #27
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Do you want/need margins on the top and bottom? The default margins in Book Designer is 10px for the left/right and 0px for the top/bottom.
yes, margins on the top and bottom are important as well. the text on a page needs white space to breathe and allow the eye to circulate freely. it makes for a much more comfortable reading experience overall. however i don't mind if the header is at the very top of the screen, and there is perhaps a margin of about one line height only between the header and the body text.

Quote:
Personally, I don't have any issues with finding the next line when the text is to the edge of the screen. But I do understand your point of view.

One other thing I do is reduce the amout of space between the words. Not so much to cram more per line, but because I feel that overall, it looks nicer when justified as I get less lines with lousy word spacing.
i also really dislike the irregular (and frequently too large) spaces between words you get when using automatic justification. but my solution to this is to use left-alignment, instead of justified text. i find it gives a much nicer result on reflowable text. this also allows me to reduce the right margin to 5px, since the ragged right will have more space at the ends of lines anyway. space on a page is really important, it's not good to pack the words too closely together. it makes it much harder to read. but i know that some people feel very strongly about justified text. i have very rarely (if ever) seen automatic justification which gave a good result, particularly on a relatively small screen ; i'd much rather read left-aligned text than badly justified.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:25 PM   #28
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I prefer no margins as it gives me more text per page.
Ah, well, I can't help noticing that your avatar has an ugly header and really wide margins all around. Doesn't that bother you?
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:21 PM   #29
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I still think you need to address the problems that BD has with text documents, in particular its tendency to create extra paragraphs. In the example of Wells' book in #5 above, paragraphs 2 and 3 are really all one paragraph in the original. In Chapter 1, BD creates 3 extra paragraphs, in Chapter 2, it creates 4 and in Chapter 3, it creates 4.

If you're forced to deal with text formatting from Gutenburg, as sometimes happens, you need to put it through Stingo's macro, available on this site. It's an easy fix for the problem and one that a new user of BD should know about.

Jim
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:43 AM   #30
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I still think you need to address the problems that BD has with text documents, in particular its tendency to create extra paragraphs. In the example of Wells' book in #5 above, paragraphs 2 and 3 are really all one paragraph in the original. In Chapter 1, BD creates 3 extra paragraphs, in Chapter 2, it creates 4 and in Chapter 3, it creates 4.

If you're forced to deal with text formatting from Gutenburg, as sometimes happens, you need to put it through Stingo's macro, available on this site. It's an easy fix for the problem and one that a new user of BD should know about.

Jim
Thanks for the tip. I will see what i can do
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