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Old 04-15-2015, 12:22 PM   #31
HarryT
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
Ethics don't enter into it. This is just a silly attempt to guilt the consumer.
I respectfully disagree. Ethics certainly do enter into it, to my mind. If you browse in bookshops, and then buy online, don't complain when your local bookshops disappear.
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Old 04-15-2015, 12:25 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I respectfully disagree. Ethics certainly do enter into it, to my mind. If you browse in bookshops, and then buy online, don't complain when your local bookshops disappear.
If a store can't compete, it should disappear.
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Old 04-15-2015, 12:30 PM   #33
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If you browse in bookshops, and then buy online, don't complain when your local bookshops disappear.
That's a different kettle of fish entirely from ethics. And I didn't complain when the last of my local bookshops disappeared. Back in 1978 I believe it was.

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Old 04-15-2015, 12:50 PM   #34
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I don't see it as unethical, it's called shopping around.
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Old 04-15-2015, 01:29 PM   #35
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I walked into a store one day looking at new tablets. The salesperson (one of the owner's sons) came up and extolled the virtues of whatever tablet I looked at. This went on for a good half-hour. I eventually asked how much for my choice. I was told an amount that I considered too much. I thanked him for his time and told him I was going to see his competitor across the street. The competitor saw where I was coming from and immediately brought me to his tablet section and quoted a price that was much more in line with my perceived value of the item. I purchased it.

I also returned to the original store and mentioned to the owner that I would have been glad to purchase there if he had reasonable rates to begin with.

I mentioned this to some friends of mine who later went to the same original store and found that the prices had been adjusted appropriately.

The moral of my story.....nothing...just bored and thought I'd tell a story....

...it is a true story... Store owners SHOULD adjust their prices to an appropriate level if they want to stay in business...and there is absolutely nothing ethically wrong with it.

BTW, the store was in Dubai. It seems that some here have a sense of privilege...they think that they are OWED a sale without having to follow the tenets of capitalism.... and resort to trying to guilt those who don't buy from them, instead of providing a better service and enticing more customers...
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:28 PM   #36
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I suspect that for every customer who browses in a book store and finds a book they like and then buys it elsewhere there are many more who didn't find anything they really wanted in the available selection and left unhappy or who never entered the store at all because they now browse and shop online. Blaming their problems on the ethics of others is silly.
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Old 04-15-2015, 02:38 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
I was talking about simply browsing rather than talking to the staff. Back when I was going to B&N, I simply found it easier to browse the new book section at the front of each genre (SF&F, History, etc.) to see what new books came out since the last time I was there. I rarely got recommendations from the staff at B&N.

I get recommendations from a number of sources - here, amazon, etc... Some match what I like, some don't.
Browsing I can do in lots of places, and like I already said, I don't really find a lot of new stuff while browsing B&N.
I can talk about browsing too.


One thing I can say about B&N -- they are very good for finding out about all the books you already knew about, because you'd have to be blind and deaf not to.
And too many B&Ns I have been to have a rather superficial stock even in the back...

Last edited by eschwartz; 04-15-2015 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 04-15-2015, 07:41 PM   #38
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Do you think it would be ethical to go to a B&M store and ask a sales assistant to spend an hour demonstrating, let's say, different models of televisions to you, and then go and buy your preferred model online?
Yes, it is ethical. The sales assistant isn't there to sell you on the product. They are there to sell you on buying the product from them. There are many ways that B&M stores can stand out from their online counterparts. Notably, they can help the customer make purchasing decisions. For many people, getting accurate information about a product and what accessories to purchase with a product is sufficient to shift their purchase from online to the shop in question. In other cases, the store can go further by providing the product immediately and by setting up the product for the customer. They can also highlight the support that they offer after the product has been purchased.

Of course, many of the people who want to portray showrooming as unethical want to gloss over those points. Many B&M businesses want us to ignore what the can offer above and beyond online stores because they want to hire low cost labour (who rarely understands the product) and that have returns and exchanges as their only form of post-sale service. There are, of course, exceptions. Then again, I'm not hearing many of those exceptions complaining about showrooming.

At the end of the day, I suspect that this is mostly a result of consumer expectations. They expect low cost products and have had businesses reenforce and expectation for low quality customer service. When they go into that major electronics chain or bookstore, they may see plenty of product but receive lackluster service and virtually non-existent support. If B&M stores want to survive, they have to change these expectations from consumers or switch to online business models.

Then again, I suspect the whole notion of showrooming is vastly overblown. While price may be a factor driving people online, convenience is also a significant factor. Shopping in B&M stores, only to buy online, kinda kills the convenience factor.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:46 PM   #39
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My dad had an experience once with the manager of a store (no longer here) once. He picked up a magazine and glanced through it to see if he wanted to buy it and the guy made a remark to the effect that it was a store not a library.
Gee! Here in my place we have some bookstores that are furnished with chairs and tables so we can sit there and read as much as we can before making purchases. Plus, there's a 20% discount for every title. I don't think there are any online bookstores that offer cheaper prices than that here. Anyways, I don't think it's unethical or considered shoplifting to browse different stores before buying something, regardless of online or real stores.
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Old 04-16-2015, 03:34 AM   #40
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This David Nicolls doesn't know what he's talking about. By his logic you should never enter a book shop unless you mean to buy something. If everyone followed that bookstores would go out of the business sooner. I wonder if he's ever heard of impulse shopping. You know when you go in the shop to see something, maybe even inform yourself of the prices, with no intention to buy and you end up buying something else entirely. That happens all the time to normal people.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:13 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
Ethics don't enter into it. This is just a silly attempt to guilt the consumer.
Ding. Ding. Ding.

And playing to the peanut gallery.
Note the venue and crowd. And the rest of the speech.
It's the special snowflake gang, trying to turn back the clock and pretending there is no such thing as comparison shopping.

People walk into stores and walk out without buying every day the world over. They have for centuries.

Has the guy never been dragged shopping by his wife/girlfriend/sister? Twenty stops to buy one fracking pair of shoes?!

Idiot.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:53 AM   #42
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Has the guy never been dragged shopping by his wife/girlfriend/sister? Twenty stops to buy one fracking pair of shoes?!
And waiting for sales, and thinking it again, and sleeping over it....
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:57 AM   #43
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Is it unethical to go into a shop (knowing full well you're not buying anything there, down the street, or online) and take up a salesperson's time chatting and asking questions about things?
Hm... yes. For instance, the salesperson isn't available to another customer during this time, who might actually want to buy, but leaves the shop in frustration. Or, if s/he waits until you've finished with the salesperson, you steal this customer's time. Of course, we can't really help doing unethical things every now and then (or all the time), this is an unavoidable part of life, but shouldn't we try to both admit and minimize it?

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I just don't understand how "unethical" gets attached at the, "and then buys it online" point. It seems so random.
Because it excludes the possibility of a purchase, on which the store's business model is based. The salesperson's time is given because you may decide to buy something, and by posing as a potential customer, you imply that you may want to buy. If you know that you won't, then you are being dishonesty, aren't you? I don't think it's a major crime, and it probably won't kill the store, but to the direct yes-or-no question whether it is ethical or not, I'd say no.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:07 AM   #44
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and by posing as a potential customer, you imply that you may want to buy. If you know that you won't, then you are being dishonesty, aren't you?
Which means "...and then buys it online" is completely irrelevant to the discussion/argument, no? Going into a store with no intent to buy is then inherently dishonest, regardless of what happens after you leave, by your own logic.

I don't agree with you, but I won't object to you viewing that as "unethical." My point is that "... and then buys it online" is simply not relevant to the topic. Not in the least.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 04-16-2015 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:55 AM   #45
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Which means "...and then buys it online" is completely irrelevant to the discussion/argument, no? Going into a store with no intent to buy is then inherently dishonest, regardless of what happens after you leave, by your own logic.

I don't agree with you, but I won't object to you viewing that as "unethical." My point is that "... and then buys it online" is simply not relevant to the topic. Not in the least.
The "... with the intent of buying it online" is simply one example of "... with no intention of buying it in the store", and happens to be the example used in the article that started this discussion. Of course you could equally say "... with the intention of buying it in the discount store down the street" and the example would be equally valid, and the behaviour equally unethical.
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