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Old 05-09-2015, 06:26 PM   #286
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However said I was in Australia at the time?
What country are you referring to, in that case?
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Old 05-09-2015, 06:28 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by murg View Post
This doesn't make the use of the song any less illegal, it just means that Warner/Chappell Music doesn't prosecute non-commercial usage.

In order to not be illegal, Warner/Chappell Music would have to put the song into the public domain for non-commercial usage. I don't think that's possible.
A rights-holder can grant whatever terms of use they wish to, and if they wish to only require payment for commercial use that is entirely their decision to make.

Last edited by HarryT; 05-09-2015 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 05-09-2015, 08:14 PM   #288
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What country are you referring to, in that case?
How about a country where Happy Birthday is under copyright (disputed or not), and public performance is illegal.

Edit: The countries where this song is under copyright is a bit muddled...

Last edited by murg; 05-09-2015 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 05-09-2015, 08:21 PM   #289
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A rights-holder can grant whatever terms of use they wish to, and if they wish to only require payment for commercial use that is entirely their decision to make.
While I don't have the sheet music in my hands, I'm pretty sure that it just says: Copyright Warner/Chappell Music. All Rights Reserved.

I highly doubt that it says: Copyright Warner/Chappel Music. Non-commercial use is acceptable, all other rights reserved.

Corporate copyright attorneys just don't think that way. If they don't specifically say so, then they want you to get permission for every instance of non-commercial use.

You have been claiming that public performances are illegal. Illegal implies a crime, a violation of a criminal statute (and all of the copyright statues have the possibility of jail/prison time associated with them). There is no 'non-commercial' use clause in the laws. No 'implied acceptable use' clause.

As far as the law is concerned (in the appropriate countries), singing Happy Birthday is illegal.

More:

One version on the internet (image of sheet music) says: All Rights Reserved including Public Performance for Profit.

This means that public performance not for profit is also reserved.

Last edited by murg; 05-09-2015 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 05-09-2015, 08:43 PM   #290
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I'm curious what law you believe was being broken, given that "Happy Birthday" has been in the Australian public domain for many years (its last author died in 1946)? Public performances of public domain works are absolutely fine.
Copyright, should it be proven to exist and if it is determined to have subsisted at the time of the US-Australian FTA (early 2005 from memory), expires in Australia (similarly to the EU) upon the completion of the year 2016.

Last edited by AnotherCat; 05-09-2015 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:14 AM   #291
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Copyright, should it be proven to exist and if it is determined to have subsisted at the time of the US-Australian FTA (early 2005 from memory), expires in Australia (similarly to the EU) upon the completion of the year 2016.
The work entered the Australian public domain on 1st Jan 1997, 50 years after the death of the last author in 1946. When Australia changed from a life+50 to a life+70 copyright term in 2004, it had no impact on works that were already in the public domain at that time.
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:17 AM   #292
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How about a country where Happy Birthday is under copyright (disputed or not), and public performance is illegal.

Edit: The countries where this song is under copyright is a bit muddled...
Hang on a minute. You said that you actually saw this supposed illegal activity. What I'm asking you is what country you were in when you saw it. That's not a difficult question to answer, is it?
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:38 AM   #293
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Of relevance to this somewhat pedantic discussion, in Australia (at least), copyright right infringement is a civil action and not the sort of thing the police are going to stop you at the street corner for.

Quote:
Generally, if you are a copyright owner and someone infringes your copyright, it is up to you to take action to stop the infringements and/or claim compensation or other legal remedies. This is a civil legal action.
Taken from the "Protecting your copyright" document here: Australian Copyright Council

The various exaggerated claims of illegal performances are largely irrelevant if the copyright holder never gets to know of them, or decides to take no action (which I can imagine is likely to be the case if any author heard about their work being read aloud in a library).

As I understand it, there can be issues about protecting your intellectual rights if it is proven you have not taken steps to protect them - but anyone using this defence would, I presume, have to prove that you knew about the other infringements.

Last edited by gmw; 05-10-2015 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 05-11-2015, 03:41 AM   #294
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As I understand it, there can be issues about protecting your intellectual rights if it is proven you have not taken steps to protect them - but anyone using this defence would, I presume, have to prove that you knew about the other infringements.
This really only applies to trademarks. Not defending a trademark can result in the term becoming a generic word and no longer trademarked. E.g. escalator or linoleum.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:31 AM   #295
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More importantly, as public performances of copyrighted materials are illegal, when do these SWAT teams descend on karaoke bars?

I mean, if they want the public on their side, then this is surely the right place to start
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:34 AM   #296
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More importantly, as public performances of copyrighted materials are illegal, when do these SWAT teams descend on karaoke bars?

I mean, if they want the public on their side, then this is surely the right place to start
Such performances are almost certainly authorised through licensing.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:56 AM   #297
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Such performances are almost certainly authorised through licensing.
Absolutely. In the UK, for example, any establishment which has music has to have a licence from the Performing Rights Society. Each year, the PRS distributes those licence fees to rights-holders (although I don't know how they determine who gets how much).

If you go into pretty much any pub in the UK you'll see a sign up over the door or the bar which says something like "These premises are licensed for the performance of music".
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Old 05-11-2015, 03:35 PM   #298
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Happy Birthday is still under copyright until 2030 in the US. It shouldn't be but the entire realm of IP law is a mess in the US and broken.

Personally I break the DRM on my books and since I don't distribute the chance of anyone suing me is infinitesimal. No copyright owner wants to be the one to establish case law where stripping DRM is permitted. And suing the purchaser of an ebook for stripping the DRM so as to move off of dying platforms is too risky for the copyright owner.
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