Chariots Of the Gods? Anyone read it?

[wayrad]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

I was probably around that age (in the 1980s) when I read COtG/tGfOS-- and Velikovsky's crap, too.

Same here, Thor Heyerdahl's books too. I think even then I noticed that in this type of book, it was hardly ever white Europeans who were supposed to have needed all that help to get anything done, though.

[WillAdams]

If it were filed under fiction, it would be marginably acceptable, but as HistoryWes noted, his cherry-picking of facts and ignoring anything which doesn't suit his agenda goes against the most basic principles of science.

http://www.debunker.com/texts/vondanik.html

William

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Ain't it funny how Erich von Daniken appeals to teenagers (or teenager mentality)? I too read nearly all of Erich's books when I was about 12/13. Thought he wrote a good story then and probably half-believed most of it. Then I grew up.

Same here. I even have a signed copy of one of his books somewhere.

[wayrad]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

If it were filed under fiction, it would be marginably acceptable, but as HistoryWes noted, his cherry-picking of facts and ignoring anything which doesn't suit his agenda goes against the most basic principles of science.

http://www.debunker.com/texts/vondanik.html

William

Cool article. He doesn't mention the surveyer's wheel idea of why numbers similar to pi can often be derived from manipulating the dimensions of Egyptian monuments; i.e. that they used a wheel for measuring out land, with a diameter equal to a standard unit of measurement which was also be used in determining height, so it would build pi in there without the builders being aware of it. That theory must be more recent, I suppose.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

If it were filed under fiction, it would be marginably acceptable, but as HistoryWes noted, his cherry-picking of facts and ignoring anything which doesn't suit his agenda goes against the most basic principles of science.

http://www.debunker.com/texts/vondanik.html

William

Precisely. Real science looks at the facts, and then comes up with a theory to explain them. Pseudo-science does exactly the opposite - its comes up with a theory, and then cherry-picks facts to support it, while ignoring anything to the contrary.

[luqmaninbmore]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Drivel. Utter drivel. Preudo-science of the worst kind. Moreover, I actually find the idea that our ancestors were incapable of large-scale engineering projects without the assistance of "aliens" to be somewhat offensive. Their achievements were even more astounding when you consider that it was all done without the aid of sophisticated machines.

There is definitely a strata of racism underlying many of the ancient astronaut theories, given that they revolve primarily around the ability of early non-Europeans to construct the architectural and engineering feats that still command awe. I mean, sure, they'll throw in Stone Henge, but mostly it's about how Egyptians could never construct Pyramids, Meso-Americans could never gather such an amount of astronomical knowledge, or the Dogon could never have learned about Sirius on their own. As for Flim-Flam, while the Cottingley Fairies account is interesting, Randi is neither a scientist nor a philosopher of science. The first time I read flim-flam, I loved it. After taking several classes in the Philosophy of Science I was less then impressed upon reading it again. Having studied parapsychology quite a bit, I do think there are some genuine cases of anomalous phenomena, including some effects that have been repeated in the lab (such as the "Sheep-Goat effect"). That said, by and large the "psychics" are con-artists and low-level magicians.

Luqman

I always thought von Daniken's books were suited to questioning and gullible teenagers. Same with all of Carlos Castadena's stuff. Good for the age when you should be questioning accepted ideas. Then one grows older, better educated, and wiser and discovers why those ideas are accepted. Crop circles anyone? LOL!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Moreover, I actually find the idea that our ancestors were incapable of large-scale engineering projects without the assistance of "aliens" to be somewhat offensive. Their achievements were even more astounding when you consider that it was all done without the aid of sophisticated machines.

Hear, hear.

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

I always thought von Daniken's books were suited to questioning and gullible teenagers.

You don't have to be a teenager to be questioning and gullible! Plenty of adults bought the books, and bought into the explanations, too... as I said, the "legs" of the movement had more to do with human psychology than the theories themselves. People generally need something to believe in, on a psychological level, and CotG offered one more possibility that lots of people were willing to accept.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Drivel. Utter drivel. Preudo-science of the worst kind. Moreover, I actually find the idea that our ancestors were incapable of large-scale engineering projects without the assistance of "aliens" to be somewhat offensive. Their achievements were even more astounding when you consider that it was all done without the aid of sophisticated machines.

I completely agree and have often felt the same way.

[rock]

hey I am reading it to just see what it is all about.

I will say I am further into it, and one thing I love is when is says " THAT ONLY LEAVES ALIENS!" or something to that extent.

Also I know it may seem demeaning to ancient civlisations to say they had help building those amazing structures, and the astronomy, but the thing I find more demeaning that we still believe we are more advance then them, which may be true to a point, but yet we still cannot figure out how they knew so much about the galaxy, and can't figure out how they built some of these structures. So how are we that much more advanced then them?

Honestly I am still amazed at the Piri Reis Map that is so accurate.

hey when I was a kid I wanted to be an archeologist.... but yeah now I am into computers lol. Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, and Indiana Jones made me want to explore and love science, where Indiana made me want to become an archeologis, (and yes I knew it wouldn't be as fun as the movies made it lol).

Also I am 25 now, so I am not so gulliable, but it is an interesting read I must admit. He really writes the story like you are in the room with him, I am picturing talking with his hands as he explains to us his theory.

[WillAdams]

The problem w/ that is that we _do_ understand how the Mayans and Egyptians &c. did the things which they did --- ars longa, vita brevis --- they took the long view and worked harder, for less pay than people can conceive of now. Look up projects by real archeologists to re-create bits of monuments and other aspects of ancient life --- things like Thor Heyerdahl's voyage on the _Kon Tiki_ &c.

We are more advanced because we have the advantage of their learning and experience, ``If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.'' --- Isaac Newton.

The Piri Reis Map isn't accurate --- only Daniken's representation of it is, and he does that be discarding all inaccuracies as copying errors and leaving them out.

As I noted, it's not-too-awful fiction, but absolutely reprehensible to attempt to pass it off as science.

William

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by rock

hey I am reading it to just see what it is all about.

I will say I am further into it, and one thing I love is when is says " THAT ONLY LEAVES ALIENS!" or something to that extent.

Also I know it may seem demeaning to ancient civlisations to say they had help building those amazing structures, and the astronomy, but the thing I find more demeaning that we still believe we are more advance then them, which may be true to a point, but yet we still cannot figure out how they knew so much about the galaxy, and can't figure out how they built some of these structures. So how are we that much more advanced then them?

Honestly I am still amazed at the Piri Reis Map that is so accurate.

hey when I was a kid I wanted to be an archeologist.... but yeah now I am into computers lol. Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, and Indiana Jones made me want to explore and love science, where Indiana made me want to become an archeologis, (and yes I knew it wouldn't be as fun as the movies made it lol).

Also I am 25 now, so I am not so gulliable, but it is an interesting read I must admit. He really writes the story like you are in the room with him, I am picturing talking with his hands as he explains to us his theory.

Read this:
http://www.mcwetboy.net/maproom/2007...iri_reis_m.php

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

[rock]

Good read there.

Still from what I read, there are other maps that had Anartica.

I am addicted to knowledge so I love reading everything, even if I know it is a total farce.

Though I don't think those really discount the Map as a whole, just a few errors. it still has anartica, which to our knowledge wasn't discovered in the 1500's.

Of course, it could have been revamped as time went by and we do not know it, but still it is interesting to think about.

I know there is evidence now that there was a pole shift, although it took a long time, and happened a LONG time ago, it makes one wonder if there is an ancient city under Anartica? I forget the guy who did the research, but he did it to disprove a pole shift just happening over night. You know this 2012 nonsense (no offense to believers). I believe it aired on Discovery, or National Geographic or maybe history I forget, but he was just debunking all the 2012 stuff.

I like talking about this stuff so you got anything else I can read please let me know.

Also where you from in PA? I am in Philadelphia.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by WillAdams

The problem w/ that is that we _do_ understand how the Mayans and Egyptians &c. did the things which they did --- ars longa, vita brevis --- they took the long view and worked harder, for less pay than people can conceive of now.

Precisely.

Between planting crops and harvesting them, there was essentially nothing for most people to do in Egypt, resulting in a huge workforce being available for such projects as building pyramids. Given essentially unlimited manpower, and skilled engineers (both of which the Egyptians possessed) there's very little that cannot be built.

[rock]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Precisely.

Between planting crops and harvesting them, there was essentially nothing for most people to do in Egypt, resulting in a huge workforce being available for such projects as building pyramids. Given essentially unlimited manpower, and skilled engineers (both of which the Egyptians possessed) there's very little that cannot be built.

True, but yet scientists still cannot figure out how they build the pyramids, and of course from what I heard, they were done in 22 years.

Which you look at the complexity of a pyramid, that is pretty impressive.

Sometimes I wish there was a time machine so we could just observe some of these marvels.

Of course there are many theories on how, but still nothing concrete.

Then again maybe 1000's of years from now say something happened to our civilsation, would future generations ponder the same things with out skyscrapers?


Edit: I know about the ramp ideas, and make sense, but I thought there as still doubt on that, be then again I haven't read up on it in years.

anyways here is a good read that show how complex the pyarmids are.

http://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-...t-pyramid.html