Got questions for the makers of the Readius?

CommanderROR · 12-14-2007, 11:05 AM

Dear Mobilereaders,

just a few days ago we all saw the news about the Polymer Vision Readius, the rollable ePaper solution we have been hearing about for a while now.

It appears that the device is almost ready for prime time and we have been able to get a representative from PV to join our forums and answer your questions about the Readius and other upcoming Polymer Vision devices.

So now let's go, here is your chance to learn about - and perhaps even influence - the progress of a brand-new line of eReading solutions!

jharker · 12-14-2007, 12:16 PM

Well, I have just a laundry list of questions!

I'm a huge, huge fan of flexible e-paper. That's what will really change the world...

So here are a few questions to start with. These first ones might all be confidential until the Readius is close to release...?

What are the Readius's specs? Display size, refresh rate, resolution, battery life?
What's your intended market and kinds of use? E-books readers? Business? Etc.?
When do you think we'll be able to buy one?

Okay, now that I got those out of the way, here are some more general questions!

How quickly do you think we'll see widespread manufacturing of flexible e-paper?
Will mass manufacture of plastic-based flexible electronics eventually make these a lot cheaper?
When do you think we'll see multiple flexible e-paper devices on the market?
What's your plan for what comes after Readius? Bigger screen? Roll-up instead of fold-up?
What were some of the technical challenges you had to overcome in the Readius?
What's your take on UI design for slow-refresh e-ink displays?
I had always thought that a great thing would be to bind multiple sheets of e-paper into a book-like form factor... do you think that will someday be technically feasible? Economical?

And of course, many thanks in advance to anyone from Polymer Vision who drops in to answer our questions!

TadW · 12-14-2007, 02:09 PM

Here is what I like to know: Does rolling of the screen have a negative impact on the screen itself? Could it get damaged through the process over time?

Thomas · 12-14-2007, 05:15 PM

Good to see many questions. See questions below. BTW will any of you attend MWC 11-14 febr. in Barcelona to see the new products and demos? I can provide entry to the fairground if needed.
- file formats that will be supported from start onwards: pdf + HTML + ASCII. The intention is to keep the Readius an open platform. More formats will be added depending on content deals we make.
- Bigger screens: there is no technological barrier to move to bigger display sizes in the future. And this will happen in a few years from now.
- Specs: 5", QVGA 240x320, refresh <<1s, battery life based on reading only is about 30 hours. Since we have UMTS/3G connectivity (and even DVB-H) available as well the actual battery life will depend very much on user profile.
- How quickly do you think we'll see widespread manufacturing of flexible e-paper?
Thomas: PV is the first company in the world to start up mass manufacturing of rollable displays so it is difficult to judge rest of the industry (that focus on flexible iso. rollable). I expect more production starts late 2008.
- Will mass manufacture of plastic-based flexible electronics eventually make these a lot cheaper?
Thomas: Yes indeed, specifically for rollable displays these can ulitmately become cost competitive with LCD in similar volumes.
- When do you think we'll see multiple flexible e-paper devices on the market?
Thomas: 2009?
- What's your plan for what comes after Readius? Bigger screen? Roll-up instead of fold-up?
Thomas: bigger, higher resolution, rolling, touch.
- What were some of the technical challenges you had to overcome in the Readius?
Thomas: 15 years of R&D have been spent on developing organic electronics and making them rollable and then making them commercially sellable.
- What's your take on UI design for slow-refresh e-ink displays?
Thomas: the complete UI design (buttons, sw etc) of the Readius is designed around the characteristics of the display. Demo's will be on our website from febr onwards. (or come to Barcelona)
- I had always thought that a great thing would be to bind multiple sheets of e-paper into a book-like form factor... do you think that will someday be technically feasible? Economical?
Thomas: Technically possible yes, but commercially viable?? (to be honest I have some personal doubts about flexibel)

Thomas · 12-14-2007, 05:21 PM

Forgot to answer TadW question:
1 of the key areas we have been working on over the last years is to move from laboratorium stage (wow its works) to commercial products (wow it still works after thousands of rolls in/out etc.). We would never launch the product without being able to guarantee years of usage in a commercial environment.

GregS · 12-14-2007, 10:19 PM

Thomas thanks for all this information - if everything goes well 2009 looks like the year this thing really takes off - bigger displays (A4) are to my mind the critical turning point.

Please do not underestimate the role of "white space" as an aid to reading, especially of complex material, an A4 size is not just bigger, it creates typographical space as well, though A5 is best for most material (displaying two pages is a distinct virtue when reading is fast, sometimes more text per screen requires generous white space around it - cramming the margins is not always a good idea).

Big print also requires big pages.

So long as displays were rigid portability restricts size absolutely, flexible, rollable, epaper is the greatest blessing we could have. Thank you and all the best in your venture.

Cabe · 12-14-2007, 10:25 PM

Will the power be supplied by a bespoke battery solution or will you be using widely available batteries like AA's (hint, this would be a good thing

)

dugbug · 12-15-2007, 08:15 AM

PDF and HTML? Have you guys tried to re-flow a PDF file? Do you support on-board font scaling?

-d

astra · 12-15-2007, 10:23 AM

Thomas

Thanks a lot for answers.
Very interesting indeed.

Bob Russell · 12-15-2007, 10:29 AM

Thanks Thomas for giving us some great info on a really exciting new technology and device. I'm sure that there are a lot of people becoming very excited about what is in store from Polymer Vision!

Now that we're all excited about the current device, may I add a few more questions about how much this technology might change the display landscape in the near future...
*) Is it a simple matter to move up to VGA resolutions?
*) Is that resolution increase more likely to come from larger displays, or can it be done in the smaller size also?
*) Are you actively working on color versions?
*) Do you see the possibility of this display technology being adopted for smartphones or MID/UMPC-like devices? (E-ink, for example, seems to be inappropriate with current refresh rates for general computing. Does the flexible display technology have promise for general computing use?)
*) Is it likely that backlights or touch screens can be added to the displays?

Thanks again for sharing this exciting info with us!

Thomas · 12-16-2007, 03:42 PM

1. Batteries will be rechargeable type of batteries.
2. On board font scaling will be included.
3. Roadmap related questions:
- Resolution is being worked on, also with 5" display. But also size of display, touch, light (backlight is not possible with e-paper display) and colour.
- It is Polymer Vision's vision to "put a rollable display in every mobile device"! For this to happen full colour video capabilities are a requirement.

Xenophon · 12-16-2007, 05:46 PM

The issue that matters most to me (above Color, above screen size, above roll-up capability) is resolution. Not resolution as in "more pixels on a bigger screen," but rather much higher DPI. I'd like 300 DPI minimum. 600 or 1200 would be better. Is there any prospect of (say) a 6" diagonal 600DPI display? Anywhere on the horizon at all?

This is really a key issue for competing with paper. Ordinary paperbacks are printed between 400 and 600DPI. Quality glossy magazines and textbooks sometimes run up to 3000DPI. When can I have a high-quality display like that?

Xenophon

Ummm... I realize that such a screen would be impossibly expensive at the moment. I guess I really mean to ask: when can we have something like that at prices not TOO much worse than the current batch of displays?

Dylrob · 12-16-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas

1. Batteries will be rechargeable type of batteries.

In that case, my question is whether the battery is user replaceable, or will it have to be sent in for service if it ever needs to be replaced?

jharker · 12-16-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon

The issue that matters most to me (above Color, above screen size, above roll-up capability) is resolution. Not resolution as in "more pixels on a bigger screen," but rather much higher DPI. I'd like 300 DPI minimum. 600 or 1200 would be better. Is there any prospect of (say) a 6" diagonal 600DPI display? Anywhere on the horizon at all?

Just to put that in some context, I want to point out that 600 DPI in a 6" diagonal screen would mean a screen with resolution 2160x2880... which is pretty high-end even for a desktop, let alone a mobile device!

At this point, the graphics card (and also the power use) becomes the limiting factor. Until graphics cards get a LOT smaller and more power-efficient, you'll probably end up trading off between resolution and refresh rate, since no mobile graphics card will be able to do high-rez AND high-refresh at the same time.

Of course, by high-refresh, I mean video speeds. Once e-ink itself becomes faster, even refreshing a high-resolution screen once should be pretty much instantaneous to the human eye...

DaleDe · 12-17-2007, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jharker

Just to put that in some context, I want to point out that 600 DPI in a 6" diagonal screen would mean a screen with resolution 2160x2880... which is pretty high-end even for a desktop, let alone a mobile device!

At this point, the graphics card (and also the power use) becomes the limiting factor. Until graphics cards get a LOT smaller and more power-efficient, you'll probably end up trading off between resolution and refresh rate, since no mobile graphics card will be able to do high-rez AND high-refresh at the same time.

Of course, by high-refresh, I mean video speeds. Once e-ink itself becomes faster, even refreshing a high-resolution screen once should be pretty much instantaneous to the human eye...

I believe this to be an extreme requirement and not needed by most users. If you try and read 4 pt fonts then it could be important.

Dale

12-14-2007, 11:05 AM	#1
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Got questions for the makers of the Readius? Dear Mobilereaders, just a few days ago we all saw the news about the Polymer Vision Readius, the rollable ePaper solution we have been hearing about for a while now. It appears that the device is almost ready for prime time and we have been able to get a representative from PV to join our forums and answer your questions about the Readius and other upcoming Polymer Vision devices. So now let's go, here is your chance to learn about - and perhaps even influence - the progress of a brand-new line of eReading solutions!

12-14-2007, 12:16 PM	#2
jharker Developer Posts: 345 Karma: 3473 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Device: iRex iLiad v1, Blackberry Tour, Kindle DX, iPad.	Well, I have just a laundry list of questions! I'm a huge, huge fan of flexible e-paper. That's what will really change the world... So here are a few questions to start with. These first ones might all be confidential until the Readius is close to release...? What are the Readius's specs? Display size, refresh rate, resolution, battery life? What's your intended market and kinds of use? E-books readers? Business? Etc.? When do you think we'll be able to buy one? Okay, now that I got those out of the way, here are some more general questions! How quickly do you think we'll see widespread manufacturing of flexible e-paper? Will mass manufacture of plastic-based flexible electronics eventually make these a lot cheaper? When do you think we'll see multiple flexible e-paper devices on the market? What's your plan for what comes after Readius? Bigger screen? Roll-up instead of fold-up? What were some of the technical challenges you had to overcome in the Readius? What's your take on UI design for slow-refresh e-ink displays? I had always thought that a great thing would be to bind multiple sheets of e-paper into a book-like form factor... do you think that will someday be technically feasible? Economical? And of course, many thanks in advance to anyone from Polymer Vision who drops in to answer our questions!

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12-14-2007, 02:09 PM	#3
TadW Uebermensch Posts: 2,583 Karma: 1094606 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Device: Kindle	Here is what I like to know: Does rolling of the screen have a negative impact on the screen itself? Could it get damaged through the process over time?

12-14-2007, 05:15 PM	#4
Thomas Member Posts: 11 Karma: 212 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Readius	Good to see many questions. See questions below. BTW will any of you attend MWC 11-14 febr. in Barcelona to see the new products and demos? I can provide entry to the fairground if needed. - file formats that will be supported from start onwards: pdf + HTML + ASCII. The intention is to keep the Readius an open platform. More formats will be added depending on content deals we make. - Bigger screens: there is no technological barrier to move to bigger display sizes in the future. And this will happen in a few years from now. - Specs: 5", QVGA 240x320, refresh <<1s, battery life based on reading only is about 30 hours. Since we have UMTS/3G connectivity (and even DVB-H) available as well the actual battery life will depend very much on user profile. - How quickly do you think we'll see widespread manufacturing of flexible e-paper? Thomas: PV is the first company in the world to start up mass manufacturing of rollable displays so it is difficult to judge rest of the industry (that focus on flexible iso. rollable). I expect more production starts late 2008. - Will mass manufacture of plastic-based flexible electronics eventually make these a lot cheaper? Thomas: Yes indeed, specifically for rollable displays these can ulitmately become cost competitive with LCD in similar volumes. - When do you think we'll see multiple flexible e-paper devices on the market? Thomas: 2009? - What's your plan for what comes after Readius? Bigger screen? Roll-up instead of fold-up? Thomas: bigger, higher resolution, rolling, touch. - What were some of the technical challenges you had to overcome in the Readius? Thomas: 15 years of R&D have been spent on developing organic electronics and making them rollable and then making them commercially sellable. - What's your take on UI design for slow-refresh e-ink displays? Thomas: the complete UI design (buttons, sw etc) of the Readius is designed around the characteristics of the display. Demo's will be on our website from febr onwards. (or come to Barcelona) - I had always thought that a great thing would be to bind multiple sheets of e-paper into a book-like form factor... do you think that will someday be technically feasible? Economical? Thomas: Technically possible yes, but commercially viable?? (to be honest I have some personal doubts about flexibel)

12-14-2007, 05:21 PM	#5
Thomas Member Posts: 11 Karma: 212 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Readius	Forgot to answer TadW question: 1 of the key areas we have been working on over the last years is to move from laboratorium stage (wow its works) to commercial products (wow it still works after thousands of rolls in/out etc.). We would never launch the product without being able to guarantee years of usage in a commercial environment.

12-14-2007, 10:19 PM	#6
GregS Zealot Posts: 107 Karma: 308 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Perth Australia Device: EZ Reader 5", Iliad	Thomas thanks for all this information - if everything goes well 2009 looks like the year this thing really takes off - bigger displays (A4) are to my mind the critical turning point. Please do not underestimate the role of "white space" as an aid to reading, especially of complex material, an A4 size is not just bigger, it creates typographical space as well, though A5 is best for most material (displaying two pages is a distinct virtue when reading is fast, sometimes more text per screen requires generous white space around it - cramming the margins is not always a good idea). Big print also requires big pages. So long as displays were rigid portability restricts size absolutely, flexible, rollable, epaper is the greatest blessing we could have. Thank you and all the best in your venture.

12-14-2007, 10:25 PM	#7
Cabe Connoisseur Posts: 99 Karma: 403 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Portsmouth, UK Device: Sony PRS-505, iPhone	Will the power be supplied by a bespoke battery solution or will you be using widely available batteries like AA's (hint, this would be a good thing )

12-15-2007, 08:15 AM	#8
dugbug Addict Posts: 206 Karma: 1723 Join Date: May 2006 Device: Kindle	PDF and HTML? Have you guys tried to re-flow a PDF file? Do you support on-board font scaling? -d

12-15-2007, 10:23 AM	#9
astra The Introvert Posts: 8,307 Karma: 1000077497 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500	Thomas Thanks a lot for answers. Very interesting indeed.

12-15-2007, 10:29 AM	#10
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	Thanks Thomas for giving us some great info on a really exciting new technology and device. I'm sure that there are a lot of people becoming very excited about what is in store from Polymer Vision! Now that we're all excited about the current device, may I add a few more questions about how much this technology might change the display landscape in the near future... ) Is it a simple matter to move up to VGA resolutions? ) Is that resolution increase more likely to come from larger displays, or can it be done in the smaller size also? ) Are you actively working on color versions? ) Do you see the possibility of this display technology being adopted for smartphones or MID/UMPC-like devices? (E-ink, for example, seems to be inappropriate with current refresh rates for general computing. Does the flexible display technology have promise for general computing use?) *) Is it likely that backlights or touch screens can be added to the displays? Thanks again for sharing this exciting info with us!

12-16-2007, 03:42 PM	#11
Thomas Member Posts: 11 Karma: 212 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Readius	1. Batteries will be rechargeable type of batteries. 2. On board font scaling will be included. 3. Roadmap related questions: - Resolution is being worked on, also with 5" display. But also size of display, touch, light (backlight is not possible with e-paper display) and colour. - It is Polymer Vision's vision to "put a rollable display in every mobile device"! For this to happen full colour video capabilities are a requirement.

12-16-2007, 05:46 PM	#12
Xenophon curmudgeon Posts: 1,481 Karma: 5748190 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Redwood City, CA USA Device: Kobo Aura HD, (ex)nook, (ex)PRS-700, (ex)PRS-500	The issue that matters most to me (above Color, above screen size, above roll-up capability) is resolution. Not resolution as in "more pixels on a bigger screen," but rather much higher DPI. I'd like 300 DPI minimum. 600 or 1200 would be better. Is there any prospect of (say) a 6" diagonal 600DPI display? Anywhere on the horizon at all? This is really a key issue for competing with paper. Ordinary paperbacks are printed between 400 and 600DPI. Quality glossy magazines and textbooks sometimes run up to 3000DPI. When can I have a high-quality display like that? Xenophon Ummm... I realize that such a screen would be impossibly expensive at the moment. I guess I really mean to ask: when can we have something like that at prices not TOO much worse than the current batch of displays?

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