Reference Material

Kumabjorn · 07-09-2010, 03:06 AM

One of the advances of an E-book to me is the possibility to have all kinds of reference material at my fingertips. Yet, I find that there is not a whole lot of useful material (Encyclopedias, especially in limited fields, dictionaries etc) ot thre, or am I missing where to look for material like that?

Ea · 07-09-2010, 03:24 AM

I think it might be because ebook devices are a little slow and may have limited search and input functionality. Thus not creating a lot of demand. Also, I read an article somewhere that the epub format is still not quite as good for dictionaries as the mobipocket format, which may also slow down development of reference material. In any case, I think you'd be more likely to find reference material in the mobipocket format.

You're in luck in this case wince you own a Kindle, which uses that format, and if you are okay with removing DRM, you don't necessarily have to buy from Amazon.

rogue_librarian · 07-09-2010, 06:15 AM

There certainly is a lot of material in PDF format out there although a lot seems to stem from grey sources.

fjtorres · 07-09-2010, 07:16 PM

You can find a couple versions of Wikipedia in ebook form, a few atlases, lots of dictionaries, a couple of World Almanac-type pubs...
Most people buy readers for recreational reading more than reference use and the current reader apps aren't really designed with reference use in mind.
It looks like it'll be a while before we see a good textbook/academic-focused reader.

Kumabjorn · 07-10-2010, 01:54 AM

Actually, this is what kind of concerned me. I am an academic and the capability to move easily between different materials with basically unlimited bookmarks is heaven sent. When you add the search capability you're closing in on academic Nirvana. However, how the hell do you create an exact citation? In the organic world that is a standardized procedure, in the electronic world it seems rather chaotic.

neilmarr · 07-10-2010, 06:42 AM

I remember, many years ago, Kuma, reading an article (or maybe fictional short story) that predicted the coming of THE book: A single volume in which so much information is linked and endlessly re-linked that the entire body of recorded human knowledge is within its pages. Seemed a dream at the time, but ... well ... we have the technology; it merely needs to be affordably implemented. Imagine everyone in the whole wide word owning THE book. Yeah, I know; meantime, we have Google. Cheers. Neil

Ea · 07-10-2010, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilmarr

I remember, many years ago, Kuma, reading an article (or maybe fictional short story) that predicted the coming of THE book: A single volume in which so much information is linked and endlessly re-linked that the entire body of recorded human knowledge is within its pages. Seemed a dream at the time, but ... well ... we have the technology; it merely needs to be affordably implemented. Imagine everyone in the whole wide word owning THE book. Yeah, I know; meantime, we have Google. Cheers. Neil

Oh, you mean the Internet?

Freeshadow · 07-10-2010, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Actually, this is what kind of concerned me. I am an academic and the capability to move easily between different materials with basically unlimited bookmarks is heaven sent. When you add the search capability you're closing in on academic Nirvana. However, how the hell do you create an exact citation? In the organic world that is a standardized procedure, in the electronic world it seems rather chaotic.

therein you are right, there is no official "virtual page definition" for e-books so you can only go by part-> chapter ->>paragraph, etc. In addition to that, as a'already have mentioned on the forums, the search, pageflip, and bookmarking speeds are ATM to slow, to make the actual electronic devices fast enough for referencial work. (I used roleplaying rulebooks as an example) when eink speeds go up and tabbing multiple volumes is added we'll be there.

fjtorres · 07-10-2010, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

therein you are right, there is no official "virtual page definition" for e-books so you can only go by part-> chapter ->>paragraph, etc.

Good point. Very good point indeed.
This means the core problem is in fact file format-based and a solution means, essentially, starting from scratch.

So, to get a proper academic-focused ebook reader we would need a proper XML schema that can directly reference arbitrary passages (or words) plus a standard citation process as a first step. The closest current formats come to this is internal hyperlinks, whereas what is required are links that would lead across multiple volumes or (absent the source material) pop up a quote and enough attribution to make source acquisition viable.
And that's for starters.

The metadata would also need addressing to conform to accepted academic standards and to allow for adhoc reader-based database searches. A metadata embedded search index might be a good start. This alone would increase hardware requirements into PC territory and possiby beyond if we want snappy response to arbitrary queries.

I'm thinking that the current ebook/reader model may not be appropriate for a full academic reader at all. The needs seem to me to argue for a cloud-based service and a high function local client, instead.

I guess we do NOT have the technology nor are we even faintly close to "THE BOOK".

Interesting. Very interesting.

PS I haven't checked recently; anybody know how Berners-Lee is doing with his semantic web efforts? That might lead to a proper academic reader. Someday.

Freeshadow · 07-10-2010, 02:53 PM

as i remarked somewhere already, id be enough to add a "virtual page def"* which rreadersoftware has to follow, when referring to "pages" to the epub specs and d' be done with this.

*) 1800 chars as being the max. possible of a typoscript stdpage (30 l à 60 ch) d'be a good and familiar-looking reference

Kumabjorn · 07-12-2010, 03:09 AM

One reason I asked is that part of my duties include reading papers submitted by graduate students. This is partly an effort to tech them how to quote other material in their own work. Not the practical/technical aspect (though some need that as well) but the fair/just part, i.e. is the quote a fair reflection of the authors intention, does it reflect the author's statement.

Hence, I have to look up the original material and first find the passage, and then read "around" it in order to determine that the quote is "fair". Some of my colleagues take great joy in this endeavor, I prefer to spend my time on other tasks. Thus, a capability to look up quotes in other material would certainly enhance academic productivity. Not everyone will be as enthused as I am.

fjtorres · 07-12-2010, 09:26 AM

This kind of feature would also be useful in Government tech circles (evaluating grants and contracts) and in corporate environments. To say nothing of higher education and research.
It'll come but it will probably be in second- or third-gen etextbook readers.
And seeing the first-gen models aren't even on the horizon...

07-09-2010, 03:06 AM	#1
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	Reference Material One of the advances of an E-book to me is the possibility to have all kinds of reference material at my fingertips. Yet, I find that there is not a whole lot of useful material (Encyclopedias, especially in limited fields, dictionaries etc) ot thre, or am I missing where to look for material like that?

07-10-2010, 02:53 PM	#10
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,790 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	as i remarked somewhere already, id be enough to add a "virtual page def"* which rreadersoftware has to follow, when referring to "pages" to the epub specs and d' be done with this. ) 1800 chars as being the max. possible of a typoscript stdpage (30 l à 60 ch) d'be a good and familiar-looking reference Last edited by Freeshadow; 07-10-2010 at 02:54 PM. Reason: typo*

07-12-2010, 03:09 AM	#11
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	Grad student papers One reason I asked is that part of my duties include reading papers submitted by graduate students. This is partly an effort to tech them how to quote other material in their own work. Not the practical/technical aspect (though some need that as well) but the fair/just part, i.e. is the quote a fair reflection of the authors intention, does it reflect the author's statement. Hence, I have to look up the original material and first find the passage, and then read "around" it in order to determine that the quote is "fair". Some of my colleagues take great joy in this endeavor, I prefer to spend my time on other tasks. Thus, a capability to look up quotes in other material would certainly enhance academic productivity. Not everyone will be as enthused as I am.

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07-09-2010, 03:24 AM	#2
Ea Wizard Posts: 3,490 Karma: 5239563 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Denmark Device: Kindle 3\|iPad air\|iPhone 4S	I think it might be because ebook devices are a little slow and may have limited search and input functionality. Thus not creating a lot of demand. Also, I read an article somewhere that the epub format is still not quite as good for dictionaries as the mobipocket format, which may also slow down development of reference material. In any case, I think you'd be more likely to find reference material in the mobipocket format. You're in luck in this case wince you own a Kindle, which uses that format, and if you are okay with removing DRM, you don't necessarily have to buy from Amazon.

07-09-2010, 06:15 AM	#3
rogue_librarian Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 4269175 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Europe Device: Pocketbook Basic 613	There certainly is a lot of material in PDF format out there although a lot seems to stem from grey sources.

07-09-2010, 07:16 PM	#4
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	You can find a couple versions of Wikipedia in ebook form, a few atlases, lots of dictionaries, a couple of World Almanac-type pubs... Most people buy readers for recreational reading more than reference use and the current reader apps aren't really designed with reference use in mind. It looks like it'll be a while before we see a good textbook/academic-focused reader.

07-10-2010, 01:54 AM	#5
Kumabjorn Basculocolpic Posts: 4,356 Karma: 20181319 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sweden Device: Kindle 3 WiFi, Kindle 4SO, Kindle for Android, Sony PRS-350 and PRS-T1	Actually, this is what kind of concerned me. I am an academic and the capability to move easily between different materials with basically unlimited bookmarks is heaven sent. When you add the search capability you're closing in on academic Nirvana. However, how the hell do you create an exact citation? In the organic world that is a standardized procedure, in the electronic world it seems rather chaotic.

07-10-2010, 06:42 AM	#6
neilmarr neilmarr Posts: 7,216 Karma: 6000059 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Monaco-Menton, France Device: sony	I remember, many years ago, Kuma, reading an article (or maybe fictional short story) that predicted the coming of THE book: A single volume in which so much information is linked and endlessly re-linked that the entire body of recorded human knowledge is within its pages. Seemed a dream at the time, but ... well ... we have the technology; it merely needs to be affordably implemented. Imagine everyone in the whole wide word owning THE book. Yeah, I know; meantime, we have Google. Cheers. Neil

07-12-2010, 09:26 AM	#12
fjtorres Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,732 Karma: 128354696 Join Date: May 2009 Location: 26 kly from Sgr A* Device: T100TA,PW2,PRS-T1,KT,FireHD 8.9,K2, PB360,BeBook One,Axim51v,TC1000	This kind of feature would also be useful in Government tech circles (evaluating grants and contracts) and in corporate environments. To say nothing of higher education and research. It'll come but it will probably be in second- or third-gen etextbook readers. And seeing the first-gen models aren't even on the horizon...

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