Future proofing: Books vs. eBooks

[JSWolf]

To future proof my eBooks, I use ePub and any DRM gets stripped. It's the only existing format that has a chance of being able to be converted to something else (IMHO). I don't know if ePub as we now know it, will survive. I hope whatever ePub we end up with will be backwards compatible.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by crich70

Project Gutenberg started in the 70's and the files there are still accessible today. It's 42 yrs old and still kicking.

The plain text versions are.
Some of the others might not be.
I've got pBooks that are 150+ years old.
How many current file formats do you think will still be readable 150 years from now?

[b0rsuk]

Another thing to think about: most physical media are magnetic in nature, which means an EMP pulse (sun flare or military) can fry it permanently. CDs are optical, but they have severe longevity issues, at least those from common CD burners. They oxidize and can become unreadable within 5 years.

When it doubt, carve your data in stone. As new ways to store information are developed, they are invariably:
- faster to write
- faster to read
- less durable

[Apache]

But wind and water can erode stone.
Apache

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I've got pBooks that are 150+ years old.
How many current file formats do you think will still be readable 150 years from now?

None of them will be readable by me.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by meeera

Yep, me too (having come to the rescue of friends in this situation in the past, with my olde Mac). And those people could have prevented that, just by transferring their data over when tech first started to move on from floppies, instead of waiting ten years and then going "Oopsie!". I've seen a bunch of people lose data from not backing up their hard drive, too - again, this is very easily prevented. The solution is a modicum of education, forward planning and not falling into the trap of "it'll never happen to me" syndrome.

You know this, and I know it too.

Most other people don't know, don't want to know, or are indeed of the "It won't happen to me" or the "There will be a solution someday" sort.

There are a few people that I support through Remote Assistance to keep them reading. They wanted an ereader because of the convenience with regard to weight, size, and so fortth. However, without me, they can't even get a purchased book onto the thing.

They just don't understand the process. They just DON'T. No amount of education will solve this. These are the type of people that go "Hey, where is that file I just downloaded?" when the browser has finished and closed the download window. They are too computer-illiterate to manage.

Who do you think has to keep track of all of these people's books? Yes, me. And the only reason I do it is because they are friends or family.

If I don't download and unDRM their books, make their backups, import them into their Calibre, *and* put the books onto the reader, everything through Remote Assistance, then they won't be reading on an ereader. Even after watching me do it many times, they just can't do it themselves. Each time I ask and just watch, they hit snag somewhere along the line, be it not being able to log into the store, find the ASCM-file, find the EPUB after downloading, or using Calibre.

If I decide to go away to Timbuktu and live as a hermit, there are a significant number of people who will not just cease reading on an ereader, but will instantly loose access to ALL of their information if only the slightest thing happens, such as a defective hard drive, let alone if they'd need a program upgrade or God assist me, a file format conversion of a DRM-ed file that was bought from the store using the e-reader itself.

I can future proof my data to some extent, because I know (some) stuff, and because some individuals and/or companies provide solutions I am aware of. However, most people are too uneducated with regard to computers, too uninterested, or sometimes even too stupid to handle something like this. That's my main reason for looking into future proofing ebooks in such a way that even the most uneducated, disinterested and stupid people will be able to read for a long time to come.

At the same time, I wouldn't have to worry about it anymore myself.

[pidgeon92]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

If I decide to go away to Timbuktu and live as a hermit, there are a significant amount of people who will not just cease reading on an ereader, but will instantly loose access to ALL of their information if only the slightest thing happens, such as a defective hard drive, let alone if they'd need a program upgrade or God assist me, a file format conversion of a DRM-ed file that was bought from the store using the e-reader itself.

And they'll survive just the same as they did prior to having the technology [and someone to take care of it for them].

[Katsunami]

Yes, they'll probably go back to reading paper books, and have their computer maintained and backed up by some company for way too much money.

[Ripplinger]

Those people then either need to have computer-literate friends willing to help them, hire someone to do it for them, or as a last resort, go back to paperbacks. This is like comparing people who drive (and love to drive) to people who don't know how. They get someone to drive them around, there is no way to make it any easier on them to transfer their media.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

Those people then either need to have computer-literate friends willing to help them, hire someone to do it for them, or as a last resort, go back to paperbacks. This is like comparing people who drive (and love to drive) to people who don't know how. They get someone to drive them around, there is no way to make it any easier on them to transfer their media.

Except that DRM is not a necessity. It is a choice by the suppliers of ebooks. We know that it doesn't stop piracy. We know that those in the know can thwart it. We also know that those not in the know will get screwed by it (and those of us on unsupported computer platforms don't even get to try). All the problems boil down to DRM. So I think it's wrong to blame the computer-illiterate for this problem they have. If the files were open, it would all be so much simpler for the reader, like downloading and listening to un-DRMed music files.

Unfortunately, the longevity problem for Katsunami is a "solution" for the suppliers, since it cuts down on competition from previously bought content, and boosts fresh sales.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

No, it's not a different issue.

Yes. It is.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

To future proof my eBooks, I use ePub and any DRM gets stripped. It's the only existing format that has a chance of being able to be converted to something else (IMHO). I don't know if ePub as we now know it, will survive. I hope whatever ePub we end up with will be backwards compatible.

Calibre doesn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with changing Kindle formats, to or from.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

The plain text versions are.

EPUB is text, inside the zip file.

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Some of the others might not be.
I've got pBooks that are 150+ years old.
How many current file formats do you think will still be readable 150 years from now?

Any that are transferred to new hard drive/flash drives/whatever comes next as people replace their computers.

I mean, seriously, how hard is to Goolge for a Kindle Reader? It's hard to make stuff go away when you want it to on the internet.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by b0rsuk

Another thing to think about: most physical media are magnetic in nature, which means an EMP pulse (sun flare or military) can fry it permanently.

Um, not really. Don't believe everything you see on the SyFy channel's movies of the week.

[taustin]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

They just don't understand the process. They just DON'T. No amount of education will solve this. These are the type of people that go "Hey, where is that file I just downloaded?" when the browser has finished and closed the download window. They are too computer-illiterate to manage.

These are the same sort of people who will put their paper books in the basement, where in five years they'll be more mold than paper.

The question isn't whether or not there are 150 year old books still around. Of course there are. The question is, what percentage of 150 year old books are still around, vs. what percentage of electronic data will still be around in 150years. The former will be a rather smaller number than the latter. It's a lot easier to preserve electronic data than paper books.