Publishers see Amazon as Predatory

[Penforhire]

Seeing how traditional publishing houses have been slow to adapt they very well should see Amazon, Apple, etcetera as predatory. That's what happens when you are sheep. A wolf comes along and gobbles you up.

[Kali Yuga]

First, let's keep in mind that the "predatory" comment came from someone at O'Reilly. They're a small tech publisher that offers DRM-free versions of their books.

That said, "predatory" behavior in a formal sense is extremely hard to prove, and takes a little more than Amazon lowballing the ebook reader market by a few bucks.

In an informal sense, though, it's largely correct; Amazon is definitely trying to consolidate its position, and not get pushed around by publishers; naturally, this involves Amazon pushing around publishers.

It's no different than when Barnes & Noble was the Big Dog, ran a bunch of indie bookstores out of business, and terrified the entire industry by trying to merge with Ingram.

And of course, if Amazon does succeed in wresting significant control back from the publishers, it's only a matter of time before the people who are inclined to kick the publishers will spit twice as much venom at Amazon -- since they will be handling so many roles: Publisher, facilitator of self-publishing, retailer, equipment and software provider, supplier of reviews, recommendation engine….

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by SeaKing

Amazon is the way, the truth, the true light.

Don't pay attention to those jealous whining failures.

Is that sarcasm?
I hope so.
Amazon is a for-profit venn-ture, not a religious organization.
(That would be the ePub ADEPTS...)

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

And of course, if Amazon does succeed in wresting significant control back from the publishers, it's only a matter of time before the people who are inclined to kick the publishers will spit twice as much venom at Amazon -- since they will be handling so many roles: Publisher, facilitator of self-publishing, retailer, equipment and software provider, supplier of reviews, recommendation engine….

Only a matter of time?
I thought it had been going on for 4 years, now.
There's plenty of ABA-ers out there right now and they're not all BPH apologists...

[Sydney's Mom]

How is Amazon more predatory than Walmart? Just because someone sees a new way of doing things and is successful, and all the mom and pop stores/bookstores had to adapt, that is predatory? The antitrust laws say something is predatory when you price something so low you know it will drive the competition out of business. Now, if $9.99 was shown to be impossible to sustain, even taking into account the ereaders (remember, they started at $400) and all of the non-bestsellers people bought.

It is hilarious that the publishers are crying predatory, when they are under investigation for price fixing! I guess that is the opposite of price fixing.

[xg4bx]

dammit amazon, stop giving me what i want. life was so much simpler when i was told what i wanted by the NY publishing houses. stop making book buying so painless, i enjoyed going into brick&mortars and consistently being disappointed at their miserable selections.

and now you're bringing out of print books back into print? how dare you! obviously publishers know whats best, why would i buy old books when theres so many new twilight and anita blake clones, as well as flavor of the second celebrity books out there to read!? i like being force fed tripe!

you had to rock the boat, didn't you amazon. well you poked the beast and now you're going to get their slow, lumbering, archaic horns. we may be using holographic readers by the time you get said horns but oh yea, they're on their way. the establishment always eventually wins about 10 years too late. bank on it....because they're not.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by calibrated

I don't always love everything Amazon does, but in this case, if they want to resurrect out-of-print books and make them available again, I'm all for it. If the other publishers turned it down, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Agreed. I think Publishers are just upset because Authors are getting their rights back to their books then publishing themselves. I buy backlist titles all the time.

The only thing I see Amazon hurting is places like Smashwords. Due to their new prime lending program incentive. Alot of books have been pulled from Smashwords for this program forcing you to buy from Amazon. I've also seen several authors jack up the price once they did that to.

[carpetmojo]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Agreed. I think Publishers are just upset because Authors are getting their rights back to their books then publishing themselves. .........

I don't think that is the prime aim, or necessarily the intent, of this exercise - at least not the way it reads to me.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Due to their new prime lending program incentive. Alot of books have been pulled from Smashwords for this program forcing you to buy from Amazon. I've also seen several authors jack up the price once they did that to.

The Prime Lending exclusivity window is for only 90 days. By itself it should be no big deal. The danger is that the extra Kindle sales and lending revenue strongly exceeds the Smashwords revenue and the publisher sees no reason to return.

Basically Amazon and the Select publishers are running an experiment to see if (and how much) lending out ebooks results in higher sales of the title (or other titles in the author's catalog). In other words, are ebook libraries a sales promoter (as Amazon thinks) or a drain on sales as the BPHs proclaim?

I suspect most of us would like to know and it looks like enough publishers want to know, too, that we'll have an answer by spring.

Check this analysis:
http://publishingperspectives.com/20...indie-authors/

And the comments; they range all over.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The Prime Lending exclusivity window is for only 90 days. By itself it should be no big deal. The danger is that the extra Kindle sales and lending revenue strongly exceeds the Smashwords revenue and the publisher sees no reason to return.

Yes this is what I am afraid of they wont return.

I talked to a very well known Author a few weeks back. I asked her why she removed her books from Smashwords she told me they were still available on Amazon and due to Prime promotions she had to remove them. Knowing about the 90 days clause I asked her if they would return and she said she had no plans to put them back up over there but just B&N and Amazon. I suppose it not a huge deal seeing they are DRM free and easy to convert with Calibre most of the time.

Almost all the authors I buy from Smashwords have removed many or all of their titles. Only time will tell if they ever come back but I am not holding my breath.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Do notice, Amazon generally ignores all the BPH FUD; this PR "war" between Amazon and the publishers is distinctly one-sided. The BPHs whine and Amazon just shrugs it off and keeps on rolling along.

Y Combinator today on Hollywood and SOPA:

When a striker is fouled in the penalty area, he doesn't stop as long as he still has control of the ball; it's only when he's beaten that he turns to appeal to the ref.

This describes Amazon vs the publishers well too. It wasn't Amazon that sued the Agency publishers over their cartel.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

I don't think that is the prime aim, or necessarily the intent, of this exercise - at least not the way it reads to me.

Intent? Unlikely.
But the outcome? Increasingly so.

I remember reading on Teleread last year that (because of a legal change a few years back, I think) a *lot* of book contracts will be up for optional reversion this year. So any success stories from backlist titles getting re-issued as ebooks is going to worry traditional publishers, big and small.

Check this publisher horror story from 2010:
http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/right...nd-the-e-book/

So far it is mostly estates and mid-list authors that are taking advantage of the opportunities offered by ebooks. Their real nightmare is when the "Brand" writers do it. Or simply threaten it.

[thebestjeter]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

dammit amazon, stop giving me what i want. life was so much simpler when i was told what i wanted by the NY publishing houses. stop making book buying so painless, i enjoyed going into brick&mortars and consistently being disappointed at their miserable selections.

and now you're bringing out of print books back into print? how dare you! obviously publishers know whats best, why would i buy old books when theres so many new twilight and anita blake clones, as well as flavor of the second celebrity books out there to read!? i like being force fed tripe!

you had to rock the boat, didn't you amazon. well you poked the beast and now you're going to get their slow, lumbering, archaic horns. we may be using holographic readers by the time you get said horns but oh yea, they're on their way. the establishment always eventually wins about 10 years too late. bank on it....because they're not.

This.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

It wasn't Amazon that sued the Agency publishers over their cartel.

Why would they?
It was a triple win for them:

1- They milked their highly-publicized fight with MacMillan for a ton of consumer good will, and they constantly remind buyers whose fault it is when some ebooks are ridiculously priced
2- They judo'ed the Price Fix Scam right back at the publishers by offering the same 70-30 split to KDP publishers, thereby forcing the publishers to explain to their authors why 17% royalties with them are better than 60-70% with Amazon
3- They factored the extra Price-Fix revenue into Kindle hardware pricing which allowed them (and B&N, for that matter) to squeeze the hardware-only reader vendors off the market.

Remember, some of the lawsuits over the Price Fix name Amazon and B&N as defendants because the scam has been very good to them. And ultimately, very bad for the publishers that bought that magic bean story from Apple.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

dammit amazon, stop giving me what i want. life was so much simpler when i was told what i wanted by the NY publishing houses. stop making book buying so painless, i enjoyed going into brick&mortars and consistently being disappointed at their miserable selections.

and now you're bringing out of print books back into print? how dare you! obviously publishers know whats best, why would i buy old books when theres so many new twilight and anita blake clones, as well as flavor of the second celebrity books out there to read!? i like being force fed tripe!

you had to rock the boat, didn't you amazon. well you poked the beast and now you're going to get their slow, lumbering, archaic horns. we may be using holographic readers by the time you get said horns but oh yea, they're on their way. the establishment always eventually wins about 10 years too late. bank on it....because they're not.

Oh so true!

Cannot have those derned pesky indie authors at Amazon ruining our perdy setup either.

Gawdammit!