Proprietary Format implications

Ken Stuart · 09-26-2006, 02:49 PM

Hello,

I happened upon a 2001 CNET Editors' Review of the RCA Rocket Ebook REB1100 Ebook reader and was struck by the following comment in it:

Quote:

You can download only titles specifically released for RCA's readers, because the REB1100 doesn't support Microsoft Reader books or Adobe's e-book format.

This reminded me that I have not seen any discussion of Sony using a proprietary format (BBeB) and whether this will cause more problems along the lines of "HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray" or "VHS vs Beta".

Clearly Amazon will not be using BBeB in its Kindle ebook reader, and Amazon is the heavyweight of Internet book purchasing.

Thoughts ?

NatCh · 09-26-2006, 03:17 PM

Um.

There's been a lot of discussion around here about proprietary formats in general and BBeB in particular.

My own thought is that as long as they're allowing non-proprietary formats, the proprietary ones are less of a concern. More a decision of whether I want to buy their candy or not, since I can get candy from other places. Unlike the RocketBook.

fireproof · 09-26-2006, 03:27 PM

I imagine that Amazon.com's purchase of Mobipocket.com might show where they're headed, format-wise.

And I noticed that Sony's eReader website is pretty coy about the format stuff -- the blurb reads something like "displays PDFs, personal documents, blogs, newsfeeds, and JPGs" with the small note at the bottom that they have to be converted to BBeB... which means to me that the device only reads BBeB, but they'll give you some software (Windows only, most likely) to convert a couple of different formats into BBeB. Bleah.

I much prefer the iLiad's native support for a couple of truly open formats like HTML, and PDF.

Bob Russell · 09-26-2006, 03:31 PM

This is a legitimate issue, and the whole DRM thing is "painful" for customers.
For a less positive view of the Sony Reader due to some of the DRM issues, check out this article by David Rothman at the excellent TeleRead Blog... http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=5571 ("Will the Sony Reader be the Edsel of E-Ink")

NatCh · 09-26-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireproof

... the blurb reads something like "displays PDFs, personal documents, blogs, newsfeeds, and JPGs" with the small note at the bottom that they have to be converted to BBeB... which means to me that the device only reads BBeB, but they'll give you some software (Windows only, most likely) to convert a couple of different formats into BBeB. Bleah.

I can attest that the Reader read RTF, PDF, JPG, PNG etc. directly from my SD card.

Also, the Connect Software put the RTF file I played with directly on the Reader as an RTF -- no BBeB conversion.

davidrothman · 09-26-2006, 04:07 PM

Folks, as I keep saying, the issue is DRMed content. Your only choice is Sony's BBeB if you want to read best-sellers in e-book form--at least the vast majority of them. The Sony can't even do DRMed PDF. I know that a higher percentage of MobileRead and TeleRead readers than the population at large will read and love public domain classics and other mercifully nonencrypted works. But the typical reader will still want contemporary books from major publishers. What's more, the DRM and format issues are related. "Open" formats won't mean squat if DRM systems clash.

Meanwhile BIG thanks to Bob and NatC for all their hard work in sharing the details with us! - David Rothman (former Librie owner), for TeleRead.org

Will the Sony Reader be the Edsel of E Ink?
http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=5571

yvanleterrible · 09-26-2006, 04:25 PM

Is BBeB a format or the language the reader speaks in?
I remember the IPod having it's own language. Sony also has a language for their music players that has a more efficient compression scheme.

bingle · 09-26-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

I can attest that the Reader read RTF, PDF, JPG, PNG etc. directly from my SD card.

Also, the Connect Software put the RTF file I played with directly on the Reader as an RTF -- no BBeB conversion.

You mentioned in your lovely, lovely article (thanks, BTW!) that preparing the books through the connect software sped up page turns on the Reader by quite a bit. Does that process work with RTF, TXT, etc as well as BBeB?

NatCh · 09-26-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Is BBeB a format or the language the reader speaks in?
I remember the IPod having it's own language. Sony also has a language for their music players that has a more efficient compression scheme.

BBeB is a format like e-Reader or Mobi is a format. I think it's supposed to be XML related, somehow. It's only the DRM that makes it "secure." The .lrf I got from ManyBooks to test on the Reader showed up as a BBeB.

Anybody know any good (and preferably, free

) lrf creator apps/utilities?

NatCh · 09-26-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingle

You mentioned in your lovely, lovely article (thanks, BTW!) that preparing the books through the connect software sped up page turns on the Reader by quite a bit. Does that process work with RTF, TXT, etc as well as BBeB?

Yup, Though it sped up the initial loading rather than the page turns, those were just as quick regardless.

The BBeB seemed to have internal structure to tell the Reader what it needed for ... well, whatever it was doing, and the Reader seemed to recognize those BBeB/lrf files without any pause or processing, even from the SD card.

For the others types, it seemed to collect that info on the initial load, and put it in the cache.xml file for reference.

The only difference I saw between using the Connect Software to do that indexing, and letting the Reader do the indexing itself was that the PC's processers were about a gazillion times faster than the Reader's. The resulting cache files didn't seem any different from a quick lookover.

bingle · 09-26-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

For the others types, it seemed to collect that info on the initial load, and put it in the cache.xml file for reference.

How big are the cache.xml files that are created? Is that process going to have a significant impact on the number of books one can carry around?

Sorry for all the questions, but I think we're all very excited ;-)

NatCh · 09-26-2006, 04:40 PM

I expected the questions. I'd be disappointed if nobody cared!

The Cache file I posted was ~180 kb, I think, and it covered some big files. I don't think it'll be a big deal memory-wise. It's XML (effectively plain text for saving purposes), so it's not got a lot of overhead.

fireproof · 09-26-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

I can attest that the Reader read RTF, PDF, JPG, PNG etc. directly from my SD card.

Also, the Connect Software put the RTF file I played with directly on the Reader as an RTF -- no BBeB conversion.

That's very welcome news! It moves the device into possible purchase territory for me; I'm still curious about how the Connect website will work with Macs (will a Mac user be able to download and read a book from Sony's site?), but knowing I can put a few other formats directly on the eReader does make it more appealing.

Still, I'd rather not have a device that's tied to a single vendor for DRM'd content.

NatCh · 09-26-2006, 08:32 PM

You can only purchase content from the Connect Store via the Connect Software, which doesn't presently run on Macs.

There was a rumor a month or so back that they might be thinking of portalling that software for MacPuters, but so far, nothing further.

You can load files via memory cards, but we didn't have enough time to really get an idea of how livable that solution might be in the long run. I didn't really see anything that seemed too burdensome at the time, though.

It's only handles a single DRM type until the reach some sort of agreement with another company (I agree, not real likely), or somebody hacks another reader app into it (perhaps a bit more likely).

Presently the only e-ink alternative handles zero DRM types.

09-26-2006, 03:27 PM	#3
fireproof Enthusiast Posts: 45 Karma: 16 Join Date: Mar 2004 Device: Palm Tungsten\|TX, Sony Reader^H^H^H^H, iLiad, iPhone	Sony BBeB format I imagine that Amazon.com's purchase of Mobipocket.com might show where they're headed, format-wise. And I noticed that Sony's eReader website is pretty coy about the format stuff -- the blurb reads something like "displays PDFs, personal documents, blogs, newsfeeds, and JPGs" with the small note at the bottom that they have to be converted to BBeB... which means to me that the device only reads BBeB, but they'll give you some software (Windows only, most likely) to convert a couple of different formats into BBeB. Bleah. I much prefer the iLiad's native support for a couple of truly open formats like HTML, and PDF.

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09-26-2006, 03:17 PM	#2
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Um. There's been a lot of discussion around here about proprietary formats in general and BBeB in particular. My own thought is that as long as they're allowing non-proprietary formats, the proprietary ones are less of a concern. More a decision of whether I want to buy their candy or not, since I can get candy from other places. Unlike the RocketBook.

09-26-2006, 03:31 PM	#4
Bob Russell Recovering Gadget Addict Posts: 5,381 Karma: 676161 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Device: iPad	This is a legitimate issue, and the whole DRM thing is "painful" for customers. For a less positive view of the Sony Reader due to some of the DRM issues, check out this article by David Rothman at the excellent TeleRead Blog... http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=5571 ("Will the Sony Reader be the Edsel of E-Ink")

09-26-2006, 04:07 PM	#6
davidrothman Connoisseur Posts: 60 Karma: 32 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Alexandria, VA Device: Paperwhite, $50 Fire, iPad Air 2, Nexus 6, Kobo Aura H2O	Folks, as I keep saying, the issue is DRMed content. Your only choice is Sony's BBeB if you want to read best-sellers in e-book form--at least the vast majority of them. The Sony can't even do DRMed PDF. I know that a higher percentage of MobileRead and TeleRead readers than the population at large will read and love public domain classics and other mercifully nonencrypted works. But the typical reader will still want contemporary books from major publishers. What's more, the DRM and format issues are related. "Open" formats won't mean squat if DRM systems clash. Meanwhile BIG thanks to Bob and NatC for all their hard work in sharing the details with us! - David Rothman (former Librie owner), for TeleRead.org Will the Sony Reader be the Edsel of E Ink? http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=5571

09-26-2006, 04:25 PM	#7
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	Is BBeB a format or the language the reader speaks in? I remember the IPod having it's own language. Sony also has a language for their music players that has a more efficient compression scheme.

09-26-2006, 04:40 PM	#12
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I expected the questions. I'd be disappointed if nobody cared! The Cache file I posted was ~180 kb, I think, and it covered some big files. I don't think it'll be a big deal memory-wise. It's XML (effectively plain text for saving purposes), so it's not got a lot of overhead.

09-26-2006, 08:32 PM	#14
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	You can only purchase content from the Connect Store via the Connect Software, which doesn't presently run on Macs. There was a rumor a month or so back that they might be thinking of portalling that software for MacPuters, but so far, nothing further. You can load files via memory cards, but we didn't have enough time to really get an idea of how livable that solution might be in the long run. I didn't really see anything that seemed too burdensome at the time, though. It's only handles a single DRM type until the reach some sort of agreement with another company (I agree, not real likely), or somebody hacks another reader app into it (perhaps a bit more likely). Presently the only e-ink alternative handles zero DRM types.

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