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Old 07-21-2010, 12:32 PM   #16
L.J. Sellers
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Midlist and beginner authors may not get book tours and the like - but they do get a sales team working to get their book in bookstores all across North America.
I'm not sure this is true anymore or will hold true for long. Publishers have laid off staff, including sales people. And bookstores are reducing their inventory and carrying fewer and fewer fiction authors and more toys/videos/knickknacks. The goal of getting their book "on the shelf" will be moot soon for most authors.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:39 PM   #17
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But how much actual help are traditional publishers in connecting to the market and selling books? If you've got a big name or a hot book, a lot I'm sure. But, I hear and read a lot about how many authors get little or no assistance from publishers, who leave them to make their own connections and do their own promotion. That's a theme I hear over and over again.
How do you suppose the big name authors got to be big names in the first place?

Yes, promotion is an issue. Publishers tend to reserve promotional dollars for the Big Names, and most promotion consists of making sure the author's following know there's a new book out they can buy. To a large extent, promotion for a new author is on the author.

But you have to start somewhere. There's an awful lot of luck involved in the process - for whatever reason, a book gets picked up by the market and becomes popular.

Consider who the publisher sells to. For the most part, the publisher does not sell to you directly. They sell to retailers and distributors. Their sales force goes out to buyers and presents the house's line, and the buyers decide which titles and how many to order. The prospective reader is unlikely to know your book exists if it never gets put out on a shelf.

(And one of the intangibles is the publisher's annual sales conference, where the editors of various imprints do presentations to tell the sales force what they have in the pipeline, so the sales force can tell the buyers. An editor passionate about your book who pushes it in her presentation can considerably boost the books chances, as the sales force will be motivated to give it extra emphasis when talking to the buyers.)

Another factor is that different publishers do well with different books. An old friend is a former Executive Editor at a publishing house, who described rejecting manuscripts that she personally loved, because she knew from experience her house didn't know how to sell that kind of book.

Ultimately, it's a crap shoot. Publishers buy books they think will sell and publish them and cross their fingers. they're betting that enough books will sell to cover the losses on the ones that don't and make them enough money to stay in business.

And it's a very difficult game for a new author to get a seat at the table. You must expect to write and submit for some time before beginning to sell. But if you want to make any money at it, you largely have to go the traditional publishing route.

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Ebooks are changing that, not all at once, and it's not going to be all or nothing. Traditional publishing will continue to dominate for probably years, but ebooks and self-publishing will grow out their niche eventually.
Ebooks will probably grow out of their niche. Self-publishing is another matter. Self-published works tend to occupy one of a few categories:

The authors tried to interest a commercial publisher, got nowhere, and chose to self-publish. There is usually a good reason why commercial publishers showed no interest.

The authors chose to bypass commercial publishing and do it themselves. The tools are certainly there to make it fairly easy, but quality varies widely, and the authors are faced with the problems of finding their market and letting it know they and their work exists. And I don't know of any self published writer making a living, or even part of one, from self-publishing. If they're lucky, they cover their costs and make beer money.

The authors are writing for a niche market that is too small for a commercial publisher to profitably address. Depending upon the market, it may be possible to make money, though not a living. This is probably the best real use of self-publishing.

The authors are writing as a hobby because they just like to write, and make the books available for those who might be interest, but aren't overly concerned about sales. This is another valid use of self-publishing.

The first question I'd ask anyone going the self-publishing route is "Are you writing for money? Do you hope to make part of all of your living doing it?" If the answer is "yes", I wish them luck and advise them not to quit their day job.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:46 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by L.J. Sellers View Post
I'm not sure this is true anymore or will hold true for long. Publishers have laid off staff, including sales people. And bookstores are reducing their inventory and carrying fewer and fewer fiction authors and more toys/videos/knickknacks. The goal of getting their book "on the shelf" will be moot soon for most authors.
L.J.
Not really. Yes, publishers have laid off sales staff, but the number of folks they sell to has also shrunk. Independent bookstores are a vanishing breed. Consolidation has happened with a vengeance, and big chains like Barnes and Noble and Borders predominate. In addition to dedicate book retailers, a huge volume of books are sold through other outfits. The book buyers for "warehouse stores" like CostCo and Sam's Club have enormous clout in the industry because of the sheer volume of books they buy. We tend not to think of them because they aren't bookstores, but CostCo may sell more books overall than Borders...

One of publishing's issues is that the decision about what gets bought and put on a retailer's shelves is made by increasingly fewer people.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by L.J. Sellers View Post
I'm not sure this is true anymore or will hold true for long. Publishers have laid off staff, including sales people. And bookstores are reducing their inventory and carrying fewer and fewer fiction authors and more toys/videos/knickknacks. The goal of getting their book "on the shelf" will be moot soon for most authors.
L.J.
It's still a matter of comparatives. Publishers may do less than they once did, but they still do more than the alternatives.

They aren't perfect - but everything else is worse for getting your books in front of eyeballs.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:56 PM   #20
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Wow ... more eBooks being sold than actual books. Seems like the last people actually turning pages on their laps will be U.S. congressmen.
No. Amazon claims to have sold more ebook editions than hardcovers. Amazon didn't provide actual grosses or unit sales numbers for each, so it's hard to say what that number actually means. And it does not say what, if any, impact ebooks have had on mass market paperback sales.

It does indicate that more people have the ability and willingness to read ebooks and will purchase them if a title they like is available in that format.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:06 PM   #21
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Part of it though surely is going to be that every author will think they are above average. They can't all be right.
Even if they are above average, luck still plays a predominant role. There are too many books chasing too few readers, and they can't all sell. I'm sure everyone on MR can provide a list of books they know and love that died on the market because not enough people besides them discovered the title. And the majority are likely to be above average books in everything but their luck.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:43 PM   #22
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If commercial publishers fail, something very similar will arise to replace them.
I'm starting to wonder if traditional publishing might recapitulate what happened to the computer business.

In the 1970's and 80's, companies like Digital Equipment Corporation were prominent. DEC was once the second largest computer company in the world after IBM , and their VAX minicomputer running the VMS OS was popular and widely installed.

The problem was, hardware got steadily faster and cheaper. It became possible to buy a "super micro" for $25,000 to perform that same sorts of tasks done by a VAX costing $250,000. DEC designed a super micro of their own - the Alpha - but sales didn't ramp up fast enough to stem the losses as customers migrated to cheaper solutions. DEC sold off various parts to survive, and what was left was eventually bought by Compaq, which was in turn bought by HP. HP made minicomputers, too, but had eggs in a lot of other baskets, and weren't driven under by slowing mini-computer sales. HP still sells and supports the last OpenVMS iteration of DEC's flagship OS and services shops still running DEC gear, but DEC is long gone.

eBooks are an increasing part of the publishing industry. But eBooks are also cheaper than most comparable paper books. Yet the underlying cost of acquiring a title and preparing if for publication is the same, regardless of the form in which it's issued, and an editor I know estimates the manufacturing, warehousing, and distribution costs for a title to be about 10% of the total budget for the average book. The cost savings of not having a print edition are nowhere near as large as a lot of ebook fans believe, so there are definite limits to how low the price of an ebook might be.

And the biggest limiting factor on book sales isn't price - it's discretionary time. Reading books competes with all the other things the reader might be doing instead, such as watching TV. I don't expect the market for books to significantly expand just because they are ebooks, even if they have no cost at all. People will acquire and read what they have time for.

So what happens if publishers wind up selling the same total number of books, but the ones they do sell are cheaper, and yield less revenue and profit? How many publishers could survive a shift to entirely electronic publication?

We may see publishers begun as pure ebook publishers with lower cost structures cannibalizing the market and traditional publishers fading away.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:54 PM   #23
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We may see publishers begun as pure ebook publishers with lower cost structures cannibalizing the market and traditional publishers fading away.
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I expect to see this to happen. Traditional publishers are too tied to legacy costs and practices to make the transition smoothly.

As a reader, I want some kind of culling function between me and books. I am not interested in spending time trolling through endless self-published books. The likelihood of return on my time (in the form of good books) is too low to make it worthwhile. That's not to say that traditional publishers don't miss good books or make stupid calls, but they're also trying to appeal to a variety of tastes.

With e-books, there's more creative outlet for writers, even if it means only a handful of people read their work. I'm not against that. For my own purposes when I shop, I wish there were an easy way to filter out all self-published books.
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:48 PM   #24
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We may see publishers begun as pure ebook publishers with lower cost structures cannibalizing the market and traditional publishers fading away.
I expect to see this to happen. Traditional publishers are too tied to legacy costs and practices to make the transition smoothly.
Or are part of a conglomerate and tied to a legacy corporate structure, which amounts to about the same thing.

One experiment I find interesting is smarter traditional publishers starting ebook-only lines. A friend is a freelance editor for an ebook only imprint of a traditional publisher. (She's a former senior editor at a traditional publisher, and commented when she told me about the new gig that she appeared to have more qualifications and experience than all of the other applicants combined...)

It's a shared risk undertaking: they don't pay advances, but the writer gets a larger than normal cut of the sale. If the book does well, the author does too. And much of the work is done by freelancers operating from home, so the line has far less overhead in terms of office space and the like, as well as lower headcount expenses because freelancers are paid by the book they work on, not a fixed salary, and don't get fringe benefits.

I suspect it may work well, because the publisher is a genre publisher and the ebook line is aiming at a specific sub-genre. They know who their intended market is and what it likes, so there's less of the uncertainty attached to efforts from traditional publishers who try to cover all the bases.

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As a reader, I want some kind of culling function between me and books. I am not interested in spending time trolling through endless self-published books. The likelihood of return on my time (in the form of good books) is too low to make it worthwhile. That's not to say that traditional publishers don't miss good books or make stupid calls, but they're also trying to appeal to a variety of tastes.
You want an honest-to-God editor in the mix, to select a decent book to begin with and work with the author to make it better. An unfortunate number of folks fail to understand the role of an editor, and why having one can be critical.

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With e-books, there's more creative outlet for writers, even if it means only a handful of people read their work. I'm not against that. For my own purposes when I shop, I wish there were an easy way to filter out all self-published books.
eBooks and Print On Demand self-publishing have made it possible for anyone to produce a book. They have not made it any easier to produce a good book, nor have they made it any easier to connect with your market and sell your work.

If you are trying to make a living writing, ebook/self publishing is the wrong way to go.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:09 PM   #25
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Yes, I used "culling" specifically, because many think editing just means copy editing or proofreading (even those are separate functions).

Your experiment probably will work. What's lost in that mix is a training ground for the next crop of editors. If editors are all working freelance at home, you've wiped out learning through direct training as well as by osmosis.

I'm not saying today's publishing industry is ideal. It's just that there are tradeoffs in the transition, and we should be aware of them.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:20 PM   #26
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Yes, I used "culling" specifically, because many think editing just means copy editing or proofreading (even those are separate functions).
They are indeed. Unfortunately, they are getting increasingly short shrift due to cost pressures. A friend who was a VP at an editorial production house providing such services to publisher posted to a list I'm on describing the increasing number of books on which it wasn't done. Another list member, who was an editor at a trade house, said "But such things are part of the basic budget of the book, and are always done!" "Maybe in your house," was the reply, "but I'm the one who gets to deal with people who used to pay us to do it and don't any more..."

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Your experiment probably will work.
Well, it's not my experiment... Agreed, though: it has promise.

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What's lost in that mix is a training ground for the next crop of editors. If editors are all working freelance at home, you've wiped out learning through direct training as well as by osmosis.
You haven't, really. You've just made it harder. The wonders of technology have made it increasingly possible for geographically dispersed people to work on tasks involving the creation and manipulation of knowledge. (Making physical objects is of necessity a different matter.) There are increasing numbers of efforts where, for example, the developers working on complex software projects are geographically separated, but work on shared code stored in repositories using revision control software that lets them do so without stepping on each others electronic toes, and keeping in touch and coordinated via email, instant messaging and telephones. There's no reason why similar approaches can't be applied to book production.

We're still learning how much and what sort of actual face to face contact is necessary for efficient functioning, but there's no reason why junior editors can't be mentored by experienced seniors without face to face contact. What will differ is that it will probably take longer and it will be hard to do it as well.

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I'm not saying today's publishing industry is ideal. It's just that there are tradeoffs in the transition, and we should be aware of them.
Agreed. I don't think anyone, including those in it, think it ideal. But no one has any idea of what they ought to do instead.

Meanwhile, publishers make their living selling books. This gives them an incentive to look for good books to sell and make them better if possible, then actually try to sell them. The culling you mention is a good part of the job. Part of an editor's job is making good books better. The other part in making sure bad books don't get published.

The folks who advocate cutting out the middle man in the pursuit of lower prices will get unpleasant surprises if it actually occurs, as the culling won't be done. You get what you pay for. If you aren't willing to pay for things that insure quality, you won't get quality.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:32 PM   #27
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I edit for a living and have managed people in far-flung locations. We have plenty of tech and telecommunications. Trust me, there's no way to get nearly the training and learning you would in person. All the same, companies are willing to compromise, under pressure from consumers.

I note all this more as an observer and a reader. I lucked out career wise and timing wise; my livelihood isn't at risk. It's a shame for younger editors coming up. It's also a pain for readers who are willing to pay for quality. Much more crap to wade through.
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