Most overhyped classic masterpiece? - Page 4

Slite · 09-21-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

One of the problems people commonly find with W&P is the huge number of characters, many of whom have very similar names. My printed version of W&P has its own bookmark, with all the main "family trees" printed on it. That's a big help.

I can imagine, and that is one of my major problems with it, trying to keep all the darn people apart

HarryT · 09-21-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

The N***** word, used to refer to black people.

Oh that. It was a normal everyday word at the time. Heck, for that matter it was a normal everyday word here in the UK in my grandparents' time. You have to treat such books in the context of the culture in which they were written, don't you think?

Slite · 09-21-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Oh that. It was a normal everyday word at the time. Heck, for that matter it was a normal everyday word here in the UK in my grandparents' time. You have to treat such books in the context of the culture in which they were written, don't you think?

Just as with the original AND next to orignal title for Agatha Christies "And then there were none"

Patricia · 09-21-2009, 08:02 AM

I agree that it should be taken in a historical context, Harry.
But a young black person today might well feel affronted when reading the term scattered throughout a "classic" text. The status of the work lends a sort of tacit approval of the term.
I've uploaded books that use this term, but I try to include a mention in the description, so that readers are prepared, and can choose not to read it. However, perhaps I'm over-sensitive.

HarryT · 09-21-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

I agree that it should be taken in a historical context, Harry.
But a young black person today might well feel affronted when reading the term scattered throughout a "classic" text. The status of the work lends a sort of tacit approval of the term.
I've uploaded books that use this term, but I try to include a mention in the description, so that readers are prepared, and can choose not to read it. However, perhaps I'm over-sensitive.

No, I think it's good to be thoughtful of other peoples' feelings. However, personally I think that it's even more important not to "gloss over" history, and pretend that, for example, the slave era in America never happened. "Tom Sawyer" is an important literary work from that era, and for that reason, I'd like to see it continue to be read as a record of that time.

That's just my personal view, of course.

montsnmags · 09-21-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Do you guys love all of Moby Dick - including the weird chapters?

Yep.

Quote:

I can see how there is a decent story in there (underneath all the blubber

); but I've always had a theory that MD fans skip the boring bits - am I wrong? Or do you enjoy the discursive passages?

It's the "discursive passages" that I enjoyed the most.

Mind you, I only a few years ago read Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, and loved it, but several opinions that I respect informed me that it was "a small book that feels like a 1500 page novel" (and not in a good way).

Cheers,
Marc

lovestoreadalot · 09-21-2009, 08:38 AM

*****

Andybaby · 09-21-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

I agree that it should be taken in a historical context, Harry.
But a young black person today might well feel affronted when reading the term scattered throughout a "classic" text. The status of the work lends a sort of tacit approval of the term.
I've uploaded books that use this term, but I try to include a mention in the description, so that readers are prepared, and can choose not to read it. However, perhaps I'm over-sensitive.

as I know many young black people today, let me tell you that over 90% don't care, the word Nigga has evolved from a derogatory term into a salutatory term. This has been done over many years, with many people not knowing they are contributing to making a word that used to be offensive into a word which now means Friend, its not even used to refer solely to black people in poor communities, my brother (who is white) has many black friends, spanish friends, and ever other race of friends, and is called a nigga, and uses the word frequently in his own speech, it is part of the slang. The word itself is not evil, but the person saying it with the meaning behind it. If a white male says it with hate in his voice expect punishment, but that is rare I find, atleast in the ethically diverse New York City I live in.

I would say a very small number of black men find the term offensive(mostly Intellectuals who do not like the so called ghetto lifestyle and I would agree with them in that context), it is a much larger fear of white people to use the word, or even speak it, but I have no qualms about that word considering I hear it everyday.

Stop walking on Egg Shells, Black Men and Women are strong people and can handle a word.

Patricia · 09-21-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andybaby

as I know many young black people today, let me tell you that over 90% don't care, the word Nigga has evolved from a derogatory term into a salutatory term.

Ah, but it's different when a group chooses to use the pejorative term themselves, in an attempt to reclaim it.
A number of gay groups have called themselves "queer".
A feminist theatre company has called itself "Monstrous Regiment".

So, while a stratum of American youth use the term, I don't think that it would be polite if I used it.

Similarly, only Irish people have carte blanche to tell Irish jokes etc.

poohbear_nc · 09-21-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Do you guys love all of Moby Dick - including the weird chapters?

I can see how there is a decent story in there (underneath all the blubber

); but I've always had a theory that MD fans skip the boring bits - am I wrong? Or do you enjoy the discursive passages?

What weird chapters? Oh, the stuff on whiteness, the history of whaling, leviathans in the Bible, etc.? I think they are part of what elevates/demarcates this novel from being just a ripping good sea tale.

toomanybooks · 09-21-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I only got about one tenth of the way through Ulysses before I gave up. Joyce obviously has an immense storehouse of fascinating and diverse information within his cranium, but the book reads as if it were written under the influence of LSD. It was interesting for a while, but I got tired of wondering where it was all going.

I read and loved Ulysses. The point to Ulysses is enjoying the journey through the day, not where the day is headed. I read Ulysses for the prose style.

HarryT · 09-21-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toomanybooks

I read and loved Ulysses. The point to Ulysses is enjoying the journey through the day, not where the day is headed. I read Ulysses for the prose style.

For me, I can appreciate Ulysses as "great literature", but I can't enjoy it as "a good read". I'm sure that many people feel the same about Dickens, an author whom I love. We all have our own preferences in these things.

FlorenceArt · 09-21-2009, 12:02 PM

I really have to try to read Ulysses. I started it several times over the years, but every time, I had heard so often that it was unreadable, I was convinced from the start I couldn't do it, and I never went further than the first page I think. Now I'm really curious

DixieGal · 09-21-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Yeah I'm there with "The Sound and The Fury" by Faulkner -- I've only made it about half-way through...it does seem like there is something there, but man!

I love that one! I wrote and re-wrote papers on it all thru college. Living in the south, it is familiar to have families like that. I just "got it" while the rest of my classmates struggled. Also, I was about 40 yrs old at the time, so I had a lot of experience with that sort of dysfunctional family by then. So I was able to make some nice A papers on it,you know, write it once, then just keep editing it for different classes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtravellerh

I love Classics. Moby Dick's one of my all time favorites.

I will probably load a lot of enmity on my humble self, but I just can't stomach Jane Austen on the whole and Pride and Prejudice more specifically. It's just so hard to get into and so dry ...

Me neither! If that had been me in real life, I would've run off with the first young soldier who offered me an escape from that tradition-strangled house also!

In my opinion - and this is only my opinion because of a bad experience, and I know the book is a masterpiece - Milton's Paradise Lost. I've mentioned that on other threads. In high school, I was in the advanced group, so the lit teacher assigned it to us. It was too heavy and dark for me at that age, and I've had an aversion to it ever since. Intellectually, I know it is a masterpiece and worthy of all these centuries of accolades, but I just can not make myself appreciate it.

Ned · 09-21-2009, 12:34 PM

How about Salman Rushdie?
I waded through a few pages of Midnight's Children and all that came across was Rushdie shouting "Look at me, how clever I am" - I couldn't get past that to what he was actually on about.

And Ulysses - yes, very clever, but I can't see for the life of me how anybody could enjoy it.

I just tried Moby Dick last week for the first time and lost interest in the first few pages. Think I'll stick to the film.

And finally Dickens - the problem I have with him, apart from his over the top sentimentality - is that he's clearly writing in instalments at so much per word and everything gets dragged on and on and on.

Trollope did the same, but you can't tell by reading the books. But then I do love Anthony Trollope.

09-21-2009, 08:38 AM	#52
lovestoreadalot Connoisseur Posts: 92 Karma: 32 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: none	***** Last edited by lovestoreadalot; 09-15-2010 at 09:02 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Masterpiece Airing Classics on PBS	Elsi	Reading Recommendations	2	01-28-2009 11:42 AM
Zola, Emile: His Masterpiece, vers.01 06 December '07	Starfish	BBeB/LRF Books	0	12-06-2007 05:02 PM
Short Fiction Balzac, Honoré de: The Hidden Masterpiece, v1, 11 Sept 2007.	Patricia	Kindle Books	0	09-11-2007 05:18 PM
Short Fiction Balzac, Honoré de: The Hidden Masterpiece, v1, 11 Sept 2007.	Patricia	BBeB/LRF Books	0	09-11-2007 05:16 PM

09-21-2009, 08:02 AM	#49
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	I agree that it should be taken in a historical context, Harry. But a young black person today might well feel affronted when reading the term scattered throughout a "classic" text. The status of the work lends a sort of tacit approval of the term. I've uploaded books that use this term, but I try to include a mention in the description, so that readers are prepared, and can choose not to read it. However, perhaps I'm over-sensitive.

09-21-2009, 12:02 PM	#58
FlorenceArt High Priestess Posts: 5,761 Karma: 5042529 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Montreuil sous bois, France Device: iPad Pro 9.7, iPhone 6 Plus	I really have to try to read Ulysses. I started it several times over the years, but every time, I had heard so often that it was unreadable, I was convinced from the start I couldn't do it, and I never went further than the first page I think. Now I'm really curious

09-21-2009, 12:34 PM	#60
Ned Ebook reader Posts: 390 Karma: 5899335 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: York, England Device: Kobo Aura H2O (ed 2, v1), Kobo Forma, Kobo Libra 2	How about Salman Rushdie? I waded through a few pages of Midnight's Children and all that came across was Rushdie shouting "Look at me, how clever I am" - I couldn't get past that to what he was actually on about. And Ulysses - yes, very clever, but I can't see for the life of me how anybody could enjoy it. I just tried Moby Dick last week for the first time and lost interest in the first few pages. Think I'll stick to the film. And finally Dickens - the problem I have with him, apart from his over the top sentimentality - is that he's clearly writing in instalments at so much per word and everything gets dragged on and on and on. Trollope did the same, but you can't tell by reading the books. But then I do love Anthony Trollope.

Advert

Advert