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02-13-2013, 12:28 AM | #46 |
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Putting aside the question of grabbing your laptop, it doesn't seem to me that what DHS is doing is anything different than any law enforcement officer can do anywhere in the US. For example, you can be stopped by a cop any time, and questioned. You don't have to answer. When you don't answer, the cop has to have a reason to detain you. Thing is, of course, we have so damn many laws that this is not a problem for a cop. But the cop can't just search you without reason, as a legal matter, though he'll pretend he can unless you make it clear that you know he lacks that authority.
On the border, the Customs cops know you are entering the country & can search you or your laptop, or detain you, for any reason. But you don't have to answer any questions they ask unless you want to. Eventually they will have either let you go or escalate. Thing is, they don't have to rush, and they get to hold you longer than might be convenient. If you are a legal resident, they eventually have to let you go in, but if you haven't let them search your laptop, they can keep it till the search is done. No different than if you lock your luggage - you don't have to tell the combination but they can keep your suitcase if you don't. If there is a problem here, it is with what might be the assertion by DHS that they can behave as if you are entering the country anywhere they want. But I don't believe that's quite what they are saying. They can set up checkpoints, but I doubt that they can take your laptop without some kind of probable cause unless they know you have just entered the country. The bottom line is that the power of a cop/border agent to stop you inside the country and then take further action is not a black & white question with a simple answer. It is a complicated question, and the answer in each situation is based on specific facts, and lies along a continuum which the cops will try to push in one direction while the ACLU will try to push in another. But having worked as a lawyer for many years with a federal agency which has some police powers, I am quite happy to have the ACLU out there making trouble for such agencies, not because they are evil agencies, but because without pushback, they will inexorably take positions that they have authority that they really lack. It's what bureaucrats do. |
02-13-2013, 01:12 AM | #47 | |
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02-13-2013, 04:03 AM | #48 |
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I worked for a company whose executives had reason to travel to China. It was believed that the authorities there would seize laptops and force people to input or tell them the passwords. Our techy department set up the laptops in such a way that one password worked as normal, whilst another opened the laptop up, but also deleted a 'sensitive documents' folder. It worked in testing - I don't believe it was ever actually used in reality though.
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02-13-2013, 08:50 PM | #49 | |||
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02-13-2013, 09:13 PM | #50 |
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It isn't any better in Europe. For a while you couldn't come back from Luxembourg to Germany in your car without being searched. And an old gentleman and his wife (both retired!) I know from work got strip searched and their car taken apart coming back from a weekend in Switzerland -- all in the name of finding bank statements, etc. Of course they found nothing.
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02-13-2013, 10:57 PM | #51 | |
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In the case of the man near Canada, it was his work laptop. The authorities questioned him about some photos of Hezbollah rallies on his computer and he told them it was research for a school paper.
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02-13-2013, 11:00 PM | #52 | |
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02-14-2013, 06:50 AM | #53 | |
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02-14-2013, 07:04 AM | #54 |
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02-14-2013, 08:10 AM | #55 |
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02-14-2013, 08:23 AM | #56 | ||
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I doubt that they have it figured out. They would have to disassemble the car. |
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02-14-2013, 08:51 AM | #57 |
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Sil_lis, that is a big misunderstanding, I definitely did not mean to imply that it is ok, just the opposite.
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02-14-2013, 11:44 AM | #58 | |
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From the government's standpoint, that's the beauty of the constitution-free zone policy. Laws that apply outside the zone aren't relevant and that's the exact point of the policy.
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02-14-2013, 12:25 PM | #59 | |
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1) Never, ever lie to the Border Patrol. If you do and they find the SD card or whatever you're trying to hide, you are in big trouble. You already have the right to refuse to answer questions. Use that right instead of committing the crime of knowingly making a false statement. 2) So, the guide is 14 months old. Did you read it? Are there things in it that are no longer true? I think the examples of travellers who might want to avoid hassles are still relevant (e.g. journalists researching stories on America's "enemies" and medical professionals who are required by US law to protect patient record privacy) and the techniques for ensuring you aren't carrying any such data on electronic devices upon entry/re-entry to the US are still sound. Most of us have no sensitive data on our eReaders or laptops, but it could still be a serious inconvenience to have these devices confiscated for days or weeks. Anyone who has already been mistakenly fingered on DHS watch lists -- and these databases are notoriously rife with uncorrected errors -- might want to take some of the precautions recommended in the EFF guide in order to head off the hassle of losing their laptop on the way to a conference, or their eReader at the start of a vacation. |
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02-14-2013, 12:42 PM | #60 |
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