iPhone 5S, 5C Announced

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by afv011

I wonder how many of those are now on Ebay...

Why wonder... took a few seconds to look and across UK and US there were less than a quarter of a million hits... random check showed most were from RETAIL outlets so I guess that the answer is, "not that many..."

[holymadness]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Why wonder... took a few seconds to look and across UK and US there were less than a quarter of a million hits... random check showed most were from RETAIL outlets so I guess that the answer is, "not that many..."

Actually, most of the hits when you search for iPhone 5S on eBay are just cases and accessories. If you filter to see only cell phones, there are about 2,000 iPhone 5Ss for sale in the US and 500 in the UK.

The real question is what our resident troll was trying to imply by this.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by holymadness

The real question is what our resident troll was trying to imply by this.

Oh, I'm hurt! Such language!

[holymadness]

Well duh, I'd have written something else had I actually been trying to offend you. I'm simply informing those who may not yet be aware that you contribute nothing to the discussion. Case in point: your inability to explain yourself by answering a simple question.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by holymadness

Well duh, I'd have written something else had I actually been trying to offend you. I'm simply informing those who may not yet be aware that you contribute nothing to the discussion. Case in point: your inability to explain yourself by answering a simple question.

Why, what's to explain. It's obvious that some people have more money than sense, so others profit by overcharging them for these new gadgets on eBay. I didn't expect this to be so hard to understand, I hope I put it in simple enough terms for you.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Guys:

Wouldn't it be better to address the validity of your opponent's argument than to voice assumptions about the level of their intelligence?

You're talking about two iterations of a smartphone, after all. No point in playing the dozens.

[CommonReader]

I've got a Macstore basically around the corner from my office so I went there last week as I wanted to take a look at iOS 7. Basically the new iPhones aren't bad phones but they are not distinct any more and I fail to see the big innovations of iOS 7. It's still the old icon graveyard, just in garish colours now.
With excellent phones like the Xperia Z costing hundreds of Euros less, I fail to see any rational reason for buying the iPhone, unless you have very specific requirements or are hugely invested into iPhone apps.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by afv011

Oh, I'm hurt! Such language!

Mr Troll, meet Mr Schmoe

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by CommonReader

I've got a Macstore basically around the corner from my office so I went there last week as I wanted to take a look at iOS 7. Basically the new iPhones aren't bad phones but they are not distinct any more and I fail to see the big innovations of iOS 7. It's still the old icon graveyard, just in garish colours now.
With excellent phones like the Xperia Z costing hundreds of Euros less, I fail to see any rational reason for buying the iPhone, unless you have very specific requirements or are hugely invested into iPhone apps.

One advantage the iPhone still has (compared to Samsung and HTC phones; I haven't looked into the Xperia) is reasonably good sound out of the headphone out. Jellybean now allows one to use an external DAC with Android smartphones, but many people can't be arsed.

However:

The next wave of high-end smartphones is going to implement tremendous audio advantages, such as the ability to play back 24-bit 192k sound files. The LG G2, the Galaxy Note III -- these and other upcoming smartphones presage a new era of mobile high fidelity. The iPhone is going to have to work to keep up in about a year and I hope it does.

I still love the design of the iPhone -- all that metal and glass is practically retro-modernist. I'd even own one myself as a second or third smartphone if I could afford it.

[holymadness]

Originally Posted by afv011

Why, what's to explain. It's obvious that some people have more money than sense, so others profit by overcharging them for these new gadgets on eBay. I didn't expect this to be so hard to understand, I hope I put it in simple enough terms for you.

That's it? That's so banal I'm surprised you even bother posting at all. It was a mistake to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by holymadness

Nope, I call it what it is. There is exactly zero evidence of Apple deliberately creating artificial shortages for marketing purposes. If you have any, produce it. There are also zero compelling reasons to believe they would do so. I always read this theory on the internet promoted by people who think they've caught on to some scheme, but it just sounds like a stupid idea a person would come up with in a comedy caper movie. Not being able to satisfy consumer demand is a much bigger hit to your stock price and reputation than any news report about pre-orders being sold out. This just doesn't happen. There is no traction in it.

The stock price goes up when the demand is higher. Sold out means demand-higher-than-expected.

Originally Posted by holymadness

Actually, you don't know anything about Apple's manufacturing process, so this is empty conjecture. The first thing to note is that not even Apple can perfectly gauge demand for its product, demonstrated by the fact they they revised their Q4 guidance upwards by up to $3 billion after the weekend. The second is that your proposal is antithetical to just-in-time production principles of in-process inventory management and would represent a huge business cost which would not be recouped by having more units available at launch. The third is that your proposed timing would interfere with Apple's plans to launch new iPads and Macs in October, not to mention the rest of their release schedule.

The fact that it turns out the same way every year: sold out on release and then covering demand within a month suggests that they know exactly what the demand is.

I can see that you think that being sold out at release is a bad thing, I just can't see why. You know a restaurant is doing well when there are people waiting for tables.

Originally Posted by holymadness

Sil_ilS is being slightly disingenuous. At the time of the press release, the 5C had been available for pre-order for a week. The 5S had only been available for pre-order for 3 days, same as the iPhone 5, 4S, and 4. So the pertinent comparison is ~7 million iPhone 5S sold in three days vs. 5 million iPhone 5 over that same period last year.

Surely another sign Apple is doomed. Steve Jobs never would have let Apple increase opening weekend sales by 40% year over year.

No need to be melodramatic about this. I'm not saying that Apple is doomed. It's just an expected number.

Last year the iPhone 5 sold 5 million on release, but it didn't include the Chinese market. When it was released in China it sold 2 million in the first 3 days.

Now China got to be in on the list of first markets and we see 7 million iPhone 5s sold in 3 days. 5+2=7

[afv011]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Last year the iPhone 5 sold 5 million on release, but it didn't include the Chinese market. When it was released in China it sold 2 million in the first 3 days.

Now China got to be in on the list of first markets and we see 7 million iPhone 5s sold in 3 days. 5+2=7

Also, the fact that the 5 was discontinued means that there is a higher demand to replace that model (channel fill), which some say accounts for upwards of 3 million devices. When you put it all together (China being in the first week, the channel fill), the number is not larger than last year's, might even be lower.

Munster believes that upwards to 3.5 million 5c’s were channel fill which would make the sell-through number around 5.5 million or in-line with Street estimates but still above my 3-4 million projection.

Source

[Yolina]

I went past a EE shop yesterday (for those not in the UK, EE is one of the networks) and they had a big handwritten board outside saying "iPhone 5s IN STOCK" which I found slightly surprising, though they could be lying of course just to get people in the shop I didn't go in to enquire though.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by afv011

Also, the fact that the 5 was discontinued means that there is a higher demand to replace that model (channel fill), which some say accounts for upwards of 3 million devices. When you put it all together (China being in the first week, the channel fill), the number is not larger than last year's, might even be lower.

No, I think that this is covered by the 5c. It's essentially the same as the 5 with a different back and updated operating system.

[afv011]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

No, I think that this is covered by the 5c. It's essentially the same as the 5 with a different back and updated operating system.

Did you read the article? The idea here is that a large number of devices are not reaching the customer, but are simply stock in stores. The piles of unsold 5c shown on some store pictures would support this.