Marvin Free Edition for iPhone and iPod touch

[Kretzer]

Originally Posted by kguil

@Kretzer - The descriptions are the same. However, in neither of the descriptions there's a reference to how many books the library can contain.

Apple have very strict rules about how you can describe "free" and "lite" versions of apps both within it and in the app store description. Describing apps in terms of their limitations compared to a "full" version is frowned upon.

Really? Now this is VERY strange, why would they discourage a clear explanation? I've been confused before when there were "free" and "paid" versions that apparently did exactly the same.
That just doesn't make sense to me.

[Faterson]

Sue, it's definitely not forbidden to clarify the differences between "free" and "premium" version in the App Store. On the contrary: it's highly desirable, and the typical, expected thing in the App Store. I look with suspicion at any apps that do not clarify those differences in their App Store descriptions.

PS: You can't test the "library management" features when there is no library!

[kguil]

@Kretzer - I'd rather err on the side of caution. Some people get away with it. I don't want to risk it. Still, anyone trying the free version for a few seconds will understand immediately what's going on.

[MeSue]

Originally Posted by Faterson

Sue, it's definitely not forbidden to clarify the differences between "free" and "premium" version in the App Store. On the contrary: it's highly desirable, and the typical, expected thing in the App Store. I look with suspicion at any apps that do not clarify those differences in their App Store descriptions.

I didn't say clarifying the differences was forbidden. I said I assumed the words "trial version" were forbidden.

I agree that differences and limitations should be clearly explained in the App Store. (I have not looked there yet to see how Marvin is described.) It bugs me when the limits of a free version are not explained well.

Originally Posted by Faterson

PS: You can't test the "library management" features when there is no library!

You can test many library management features. Importing books, calibre integration, assigning collections and flags, editing metadata, calculating word count. Certainly enough to get a general idea of how it all works and if it is worth $5 to unlock fill functionality.

[kguil]

@MeSue Yes. Words like limited, trial, cutdown, etc... are forbidden and risk getting you booted out of the App Store.

I will update the description on the App Store.

[Faterson]

Just 2 examples of my favourite apps, see screenshots below. I use their premium versions. I have seen such an outline of differences in countless other apps. What could be more natural? Are Apple censors worse than former Soviet Union censors?

Sue: assigning "collections" to a single book? That's a good joke. Reminds me of the signature used by one of the MobileRead users here: "Reading one book at a time is like eating one chip at a time from a bag of chips."

Originally Posted by MeSue

Certainly enough to get a general idea of how it all works

Definitely not enough. The main thing is missing: the ability to test the display of various books in quick succession.

[kguil]

@Faterson - Thanks again for your feedback. Noted. I will be updating the App Store descriptions within the next 24 hours. The descriptions are in multiple languages so I need to get hold of the translations.

On the other hand, I will not be increasing the book limit in the free version. I think it would be dishonest and unfair to my paying customers.

Thank you for your concern.

[MeSue]

So many apps with free versions make syncing a limitation. I am glad you left this in for Marvin's free version. It's an important thing to be able to test. 👍

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by kguil

On the other hand, I will not be increasing the book limit in the free version. I think it would be dishonest and unfair to my paying customers.

That decision is definitely up to you, Kris. I shudder to think what Wulf will have to say about this when he finds out -- I think he has always been the main person concerned about what a free, feature-depleted version of Marvin might do for Marvin's reputation. I have always been open to that option; like I said to Kretzer, I'd be perfectly fine with a "load 30, show 30" Library limitation; even "load 10, show 10" would perhaps be acceptable; but "display a single book in [pseudo-]Library" really surpasses the worst fears I could have had about a potential Marvin Free version. It would render Marvin Free 100% useless for testing purposes, if I only encountered Marvin today for the first time. I can only hope most people will see this differently.

On a general level, I do not think it is good to mend one mistake with another mistake. If you now view your initial decision to release Marvin for iPhone as a paid app exclusively, as a mistake -- then I don't think that the way to correct the mistake is to make another mistake: releasing a free version lacking crucial e-reader functionality. If the original decision was a mistake -- let's accept it as such, and bear the consequences; the potential wrath of those users who purchased it over the last couple of weeks, but wouldn't have purchased it if it were available for free from the very start. There would be certainly no anger from me, and I'm sure from many other Marvin fans, either -- like many Marvin users have said many times, they have felt almost guilty for using the fabulous Marvin for iPad for free since December 2012, and that they'd be happy to pay a lot more than just $5 for Marvin. Therefore, I don't feel it's warranted to talk about "dishonesty" or "unfairness" regarding your paying customers.

[kguil]

Of course I DON'T think that making Marvin for iPhone a paid is a mistake. I can't understand how you made that leap.

The free edition exists because people asked for it and I listened to them. That's it.

I don't want to lead you on but... "100% useless"?? Are you even serious? Honestly? Have you even looked at it?

[Faterson]

I'm absolutely serious, Kris. If it's impossible to view several books in Marvin Free in quick succession, switching between the display of them -- then I don't even need to install Marvin Free to know it's useless. As you perhaps know, I always read 7 books simultaneously, so using any app that does not make it possible to easily switch at least among that amount of books, is 100% useless for me.

But quite apart from my reading habits, like I said, Marvin Free would be 100% useless for my testing purposes, too. In my search for a Stanza replacement over the years -- before I finally found that replacement in Marvin for iPad in December 2012 -- the search always went like this:

1. find a potential Stanza replacement in the App Store; read its description carefully, deciding based upon it whether paying for the app would be worth it
2. install the app and load at least 4-5 books into it, testing (and comparing!) their display; make sure the 5 or so testing books are as varied in their structure and origin (and the language they use!) as possible; is the display of each of the books satisfactory?

Every single Stanza replacement candidate failed in this test of mine, until Marvin for iPad succeeded in December 2012.

Now, Marvin Free does not even allow me to perform the step #2 (see above) in my testing, and therefore it would be 100% useless for testing purposes, and I'd give it a 1-star rating in the App Store. It's that simple. I might be swayed by other users' rave reviews and purchase the paid version of Marvin right away -- but I'd refuse to waste any time with Marvin Free.

[AnemicOak]

I am someone who didn't buy Marvin when the iPhone app launched. I didn't complain about the price or anything, but it did make me put it off to a possible future purchase as I don't read a ton on my iPhone and I don't have an iPad that I'd be syncing with so I was unsure I wanted to pay $5 for an app I would likely use a couple times a month at most.

I think it's great that there is a free version that I can now try out and having done so will more than likely be buying the full version sometime in the future (I want to actually spend some time reading with the free version first).

Thanks for making the free/lite version available Kris.

[kguil]

@Faterson I understand. You don't like it.

@AnemicOak Thanks for your kind words. I hope you enjoy it. Let me know if I can help you with anything.

[MeSue]

Originally Posted by Faterson

I'm absolutely serious, Kris. If it's impossible to view several books in Marvin Free in quick succession, switching between the display of them -- then I don't even need to install Marvin Free to know it's useless. As you perhaps know, I always read 7 books simultaneously, so using any app that does not make it possible to easily switch at least among that amount of books, is 100% useless for me.

But quite apart from my reading habits, like I said, Marvin Free would be 100% useless for my testing purposes, too. In my search for a Stanza replacement over the years -- before I finally found that replacement in Marvin for iPad in December 2012 -- the search always went like this:

1. find a potential Stanza replacement in the App Store; read its description carefully, deciding based upon it whether paying for the app would be worth it
2. install the app and load at least 4-5 books into it, testing their display; make sure the 5 or so testing books are as varied in their structure and origin (and the language they use!) as possible; is the display of each of the books satisfactory?

Every single Stanza replacement candidate failed in this test of mine, until Marvin for iPad succeeded in December 2012.

Now, Marvin Free does not even allow me to perform the step #2 (see above) in my testing, and therefore it would be 100% useless for testing purposes, and I'd give it a 1-star rating in the App Store. It's that simple. I might be swayed by other users' rave reviews and purchase the paid version of Marvin right away -- but I'd refuse to waste any time with Marvin Free.

You CAN view unlimited books in Marvin free, they just have to be tagged differently or by different authors. Or simply load one, check whatever you need to, delete it, and load another. If you are evaluating, that is enough--FOR MOST. Granted it is a little more work, but if Marvin free let you work with a larger number of books, I think it would cannibalize sales of the paid app too much.

Alex, you have to admit that your requirements are far from typical. You're a unique guy!

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by MeSue

You CAN view unlimited books in Marvin free, they just have to be tagged differently or by different authors.

That's a huge usability hurdle. Sorry, but it's a textbook example of the type of pain in the a** that a "free" app can be. It would be a lot less pain (at least to me) to instantly part with $5 than having to go through that. Actually, this type of limitations is why I think Apple forbids the official use of "trial" versions -- they just don't wish for their App Store to offer apps with such severely limited basic functionality. It may create a bad image not just for the app itself, but for the entire App Store.

Originally Posted by MeSue

Or simply load one, check whatever you need to, delete it, and load another.

And this is even worse. Delete a book that one has not even read? And, like I said, I need to compare the display of various books in my testing. Load book A, then B, then C, then B and A again, check D, check E, then B, C, A once more... and only then the initial assessment can be made about the quality of an e-reader app.

Originally Posted by MeSue

You're a unique guy!

Everyone is unique. Furthermore, I don't think that a desire to read more than a single book at a time, without having to jump through absurd hurdles (see above), is in any way "unique". If I had to place a bet on it, I'd say perhaps most people enjoy reading more than a single book at a time. (I admit that reading 7 books simultaneously is untypical.)

If Kris changed the Marvin Free limit to: "display 10 books, load unlimited books" -- then I'd find such a limit perfectly acceptable. But regarding a "display only 1 book" limit, only one adjective comes to mind: draconian.