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Old 04-17-2015, 06:51 AM   #1
meistermckay
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Publisher Fonts option not shown when using send to Kindle

When testing a mobi file on my Kindle, I noticed that it was not showing the option to view Publisher Font on the font popup window after I had sent it by the Send To Kindle app or by email. However, when I sideload the mobi file from my mac into the Kindle, the Publisher Font option is displayed. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this bug or a feature? I'm a bit concerned whether this will happen when the book is finally published on Amazon.

Last edited by meistermckay; 04-17-2015 at 06:53 AM. Reason: word missed out
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Old 04-18-2015, 05:22 PM   #2
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I vaguely recall reading that "send to Kindle" strips off the KF8 slice and sends only the MOBI slice. I could be wrong, though.

To be safe, after you it to KDP, but before you publish the book, use their online previewer.
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:20 AM   #3
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That's correct. Or at least it's true of the mail-to option, which I think is the same thing. Only the Mobi 7 file is delivered.

MeisterMac, you could get a surer result by uploading to the KDP, letting it convert, then downloading the resulting "mobi" document. It contains both the Mobi 7 and the KF8 files, and probably your original document as well.
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:08 PM   #4
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email-to-Kindle when sending a dual-MOBI will result in KF8 being sent to supported devices. This was a relatively recent change, and people have been using the loophole to email KF8 with fonts, among other things.

You can tell if the device got KF8 because the cover will be stripped.

Note: Send-to-Kindle is not even slightly a good way of simulating the buying-from-store experience. It has several exceedingly odd glitches.
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Old 04-21-2015, 06:47 AM   #5
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Ah, thanks for the update!
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:55 PM   #6
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Well, for a given value of recent, anyway. Can't remember when people noticed this and reported their successes, probably sometime late 2014 if I had to hazard a total guess.

Someone even said when emailing things to be converted, instead of a premade MOBI, the PDOC conversion made a dual-MOBI and sent KF8 to their supported device. And they still haven't fixed the cover problem.
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Old 04-22-2015, 06:29 AM   #7
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Thanks for the replies folks. I have a better understanding of what is happening now. I trust Amazon will get it right when I come to publish the book.
Thanks again.
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Old 04-23-2015, 05:31 AM   #8
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Hitch reports an ongoing problem with embedded fonts and font calls (i.e., for Courier/monospace) at Amazon.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=259398

Perhaps related?
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Old 04-23-2015, 08:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
Hitch reports an ongoing problem with embedded fonts and font calls (i.e., for Courier/monospace) at Amazon.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=259398

Perhaps related?
FWIW:

One of my professional colleagues (one I respect) called me yesterday about this, and I know it's been a problem (fonts of ANY KIND) since at least Thursday the 9th. I know about the issue because one of my red-carpet clients had four books due, for a big promo, the weekend of the 10th, and s/he uses a chapter-head font. None of his/her books were building correctly, ONCE at the KDP (post in-house mobi-build).

It's a very deep issue. If you even do something like just put a monospace font CALL, in the CSS, the resulting Step-6 mobi will have that line in the CSS file REMOVED (when you deconstruct the mobi with mobiunpack). Fonts are stripped, entirely (the font files removed from the OEBPS).

So: if you are not a master bookmaker, and you run into this, it's not you. It's Amazon. I emailed them about this on the 9th, and as of the end of that weekend, they didn't seem to have it resolved at their end. At that time, I advised them that we'd worked around it, and thus, have not had ongoing communication with them on the topic, I'll leave that to someone else. They know about it, and given that my colleague called me yesterday, using his normal methodology, presumably, it's not fixed, and mayn't be. I don't believe that they know what the issue IS, or what they did, that caused this. But the normal methods of building MOBIs, ePUBs, etc., with fonts no longer works.

I'm only adding this here in case it's relevant, based on NJ's post. I didn't read the thread to know if it is.

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Old 04-23-2015, 09:05 PM   #10
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Sounds like that could indeed be the problem.

Hey -- why does Amazon always seem to have this problem? I always see you discussing it, has Amazon ever fixed it? Do they just keep on getting the problem back again? What the blankety-blank?

Perhaps I should be glad I don't have your job.
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Old 04-24-2015, 01:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
Sounds like that could indeed be the problem.
Don't know.

Quote:
Hey -- why does Amazon always seem to have this problem? I always see you discussing it, has Amazon ever fixed it? Do they just keep on getting the problem back again? What the blankety-blank?
Yes, that's very true. It is an ongoing issue. Amazon has oriented all of its intake, etc., toward "Word" users, not professionals. It can make things extraordinarily difficult, sometimes--harder than it need be. After all, word-processing documents don't "carry" fonts, so....{shrug}

Quote:
Perhaps I should be glad I don't have your job.
Yes. I wouldn't recommend it, now, as a career path. Don't get me wrong, it has its moments, but from 2008-> all the low-hanging fruit is mostly gone. Amateurs have learned how to make their own books (or don't care, and just slam anything in there), Amazon et al's intake tools have become "better," more or less...so in an utterly unscientific survey conducted by me (this means, I chatted on the phone) in the industry (other idiots I know in this line of work), our perspective is, we are increasingly receiving "bad" books (hard to format books, not necessarily BAD, in that sense), or difficult clients (people who are absolutely allergic to any type of technology, or people who can't follow instructions, or worse, both; people who are very high-maintenance, and of course, want that for $150, or whatever). The job has become probably...5x as demanding as it was, in 2010, and about 75% as profitable, if that. So, while it was terrific from, say, 2008-9 to 2012, since 2013, *all* of us are making less money, generally speaking.

FWIW. Sorry, didn't mean to sound like some pity-party, just responding to your comment.

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Old 04-24-2015, 03:32 PM   #12
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Yep, I get it.

I do wonder a bit why you even bother anymore. Surely there is some other industry that would appreciate your talents more.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:13 PM   #13
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Charles Seper has this to say on the subject:

If this was true yesterday, it isn't true today. I just tried it and monospace works all by its lonesome. This is what works for monospace:

font-family: monospace;
font-family: 'Courier New', Courier, monospace

These do NOT work:

font-family: 'Courier New', monospace
font-family: Courier, monospace

As to heading fonts, they've been very hit and miss for a long time now. Some fonts work, others don't. And some only work if you list them in a specific way. My way of making helvetica still works fine:

font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif

Specifying Arial doesn't:

font-family: Arial, sans-serif
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Old 04-24-2015, 07:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by eschwartz View Post
Yep, I get it.

I do wonder a bit why you even bother anymore. Surely there is some other industry that would appreciate your talents more.
And indeed it did, but come 2008, that industry was effectively no more (developing 4- and 5-star resorts and hotels)...and I don't see it roaring back any time soon. (If it was, you'd be seeing commodity stocks for things like copper, etc., moving, and they haven't done s**t in 7 years.) Plus, even if it does: real estate development is a blood sport. It tends to have a lot of silverbacks and young turks. It was a tough, touch racket as a woman, in the first place, and I managed to navigate those waters for decades. When it crashed and burned in '08, I hadn't quite hit, er, "old" yet. (Ick..Let's say, "mature." Nah, let's say, "seasoned.") Now I have, and I think that unless the clients I used to have are building, finding NEW ones would be hard. While silverbacks are highly regarded in RE Development, old women are not. Sounds harsh, but only an idiot would disregard reality. I'm many things, but I don't think "idiot" is in that list.

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Old 04-25-2015, 05:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
Charles Seper has this to say on the subject:

If this was true yesterday, it isn't true today. I just tried it and monospace works all by its lonesome. This is what works for monospace:

font-family: monospace;
font-family: 'Courier New', Courier, monospace

These do NOT work:

font-family: 'Courier New', monospace
font-family: Courier, monospace
Yes; that's something similar to the discussion I had with my colleague.

Quote:
As to heading fonts, they've been very hit and miss for a long time now. Some fonts work, others don't. And some only work if you list them in a specific way. My way of making helvetica still works fine:

font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif

Specifying Arial doesn't:

font-family: Arial, sans-serif
To this....MANY fonts work. LOTS. I have not found fonts, generally, to be "hit and miss." Yes, occasionally, Amazon does something behind the curtain that affects the font intake, and occasionally, some fonts, for reasons that are utterly unclear, don't work. (Personally, I think we should all send TY notes to Amazon for nuking Papyrus, for which the design community loves them.) However, I've used Adobe Fonts, Linotype Fonts, MS fonts...all without the earth falling in.

I suspect our facility with it is because of all the white-label and INDD work that we do; we have to make fonts work. Most conversion houses don't even offer it, so...{shrug}. And frankly, if we're one of the few that's figured out the secret sauce, {more shrugging}, then that's okay with me, too. Odin knows, we've certainly put enough hours into it, not only initially, but during the prior wonkiness in 2014, and now again with this new bit of crazy, to want to recoup some of the costs of figuring it out. After all, troubleshooting at my shop isn't freebies to me; there are very real, hard, cash costs associated with that.

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