Tag Management

lucidcrux · 08-18-2010, 05:52 AM

I noticed a number of threads about tag management as well as few tickets, and this stage of development might be a good time to address it even. So I made a quick little mock-up, and also added the following to two tickets as I'm not sure how active or useful the forum or bug list are. So, here it is:

I'd like to have more tag functionality also. (This also goes with ticket #2421, #4577 and possibly #3836)

Mockup:

You can sort the list by name or count, and can limit the list to match the search box term(s). When you click on the Rename or Merge Tags buttons, a dialogue comes up that allows you type in what you want for the new Tag. Merge Identical would auto fix capitalization problems (possibly other things), and the check box indicates to automatically do this whenever importing new books or fetching meta-data. Maybe that should be a preference thing and not on here, though.

Any other comments or suggestions to improve tag handling would be awesome since I think it is really a pretty major part of how large libraries get managed, sorted, and looked through.

Edit: Actually, I just thought another useful function might be to "split" a tag, so something like "Fiction & Action" (a weird one) could be changed to have a tag for "Fiction" and "Action" (could be more than 2, just ask if there is another after each one entered). It would need to be in addition to rename and merge, because if a book didn't have either of those tags already, a rename or merge would give it only one of the two, then you'd have to go back and find all the books affected manually (not even possible probably) and add in the other tag. It would of course need to automatically remove duplicate tags when you do this, or rather just no apply one of the new ones if it already has it.

TheKindleWorm · 08-18-2010, 06:07 AM

Love the look of your mock-up. I don't know if it is possible but I would like tags within tags if that makes sense.

For instance, I have the tag Cooking but I would then like to be able to have tags under this main tag so I can then split Cooking into different types.

This would be useful for saving in folders so that I then have a main folder Cooking and then sub-folders within this produced from the second set of tags.

banjomike · 08-18-2010, 09:31 AM

Which devices would support "tags within tags"?

TheKindleWorm · 08-18-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banjomike

Which devices would support "tags within tags"?

Not many I would say. However I don't want this functionality for any device as such - I want it for when I back up my library onto my PC so I can have multiple folders within folders.

Having said that my PocketBook 360 supports folders so I could copy the entire library on there as is. Kindle of course does not support folders.

I would also find this method easier for searching within Calibre.

rabidrobot · 08-18-2010, 02:38 PM

You can get close to tags-within-tags or sub-tags using punctuation eg "Food", "Food: Pie", "Food: Cheese". This has the benefit of not requiring supplemental device support. Does calibre support saving your library into a file structure based on the tags? I am confused how tags would become folders.

I like the tag editor mock up! I too would make good use of additional functionality related to editing tags (and authors, publishers, & series for that matter).

I guess there are a few approaches to tagging a library.
Going through it systematically labeling entries with a limited number of distinct tags.
Going through it systematically, downloading tags from metadata sources, labeling entries with innumerable (but thorough) distinct tags.
And the approach I settled on, downloading a pantload of tags for the library, then going through and culling, merging, etc. until I am left with a reasonable number of distinct tags.

All three approaches would benefit from a few additional capabilities on the Tag Management panel...I think lucidcrux defined those very well.

theducks · 08-18-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabidrobot

You can get close to tags-within-tags or sub-tags using punctuation eg "Food", "Food: Pie", "Food: Cheese". This has the benefit of not requiring supplemental device support. Does calibre support saving your library into a file structure based on the tags? I am confused how tags would become folders.

I like the tag editor mock up! I too would make good use of additional functionality related to editing tags (and authors, publishers, & series for that matter).

I guess there are a few approaches to tagging a library.
Going through it systematically labeling entries with a limited number of distinct tags.
Going through it systematically, downloading tags from metadata sources, labeling entries with innumerable (but thorough) distinct tags.
And the approach I settled on, downloading a pantload of tags for the library, then going through and culling, merging, etc. until I am left with a reasonable number of distinct tags.

All three approaches would benefit from a few additional capabilities on the Tag Management panel...I think lucidcrux defined those very well.

The use of : as a tag divider is not a good idea if tags might be used as a folder generation in windows
Food-Greek
Food-Cold
Food-for thought

rabidrobot · 08-18-2010, 06:46 PM

You are very right, theducks, excellent point. I also discovered that while calibre enforces its file structure for the purposes of maintaining a library, it also includes powerful templating for saving to disk, including tags as potential folder or filename components.

travger · 08-19-2010, 09:55 AM

Nice mock-up!

I have deleted most of the tags I got from metadata and ticked the option not to dl them.
But if I do...

So, I want the book to have tags 'science fiction', 'fantasy' and 'collection'. Metadata download blesses me with things like
'science fiction - general'
'science fiction - military'
'science fiction - American'
'science fiction - fantasy'
+10 whatever else. Most of them are such as I never want to see among my tags.
Problem is, that every time I download metadata, I get all those unnessesary tags back.

Maybe there could be (growing) database of deleted tags? So that calibre sees: yep, that tag has been rejected, no need to offer it again. Or some kind of comparison between tags in the metadata and in my library; if there are new tags, calibre could list them for my acceptance/rejection.

08-18-2010, 05:52 AM	#1
lucidcrux Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 224 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: EZReader	Tag Management I noticed a number of threads about tag management as well as few tickets, and this stage of development might be a good time to address it even. So I made a quick little mock-up, and also added the following to two tickets as I'm not sure how active or useful the forum or bug list are. So, here it is: I'd like to have more tag functionality also. (This also goes with ticket #2421, #4577 and possibly #3836) Mockup: You can sort the list by name or count, and can limit the list to match the search box term(s). When you click on the Rename or Merge Tags buttons, a dialogue comes up that allows you type in what you want for the new Tag. Merge Identical would auto fix capitalization problems (possibly other things), and the check box indicates to automatically do this whenever importing new books or fetching meta-data. Maybe that should be a preference thing and not on here, though. Any other comments or suggestions to improve tag handling would be awesome since I think it is really a pretty major part of how large libraries get managed, sorted, and looked through. Edit: Actually, I just thought another useful function might be to "split" a tag, so something like "Fiction & Action" (a weird one) could be changed to have a tag for "Fiction" and "Action" (could be more than 2, just ask if there is another after each one entered). It would need to be in addition to rename and merge, because if a book didn't have either of those tags already, a rename or merge would give it only one of the two, then you'd have to go back and find all the books affected manually (not even possible probably) and add in the other tag. It would of course need to automatically remove duplicate tags when you do this, or rather just no apply one of the new ones if it already has it. Last edited by lucidcrux; 08-18-2010 at 06:04 AM. Reason: thought of something else

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08-18-2010, 06:07 AM	#2
TheKindleWorm Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 177868 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: East Anglia UK Device: Kindle 3G, iPhone 3G, iPod 4G, PB 360, Sony 600 sold, Kindle 2i sold	Love the look of your mock-up. I don't know if it is possible but I would like tags within tags if that makes sense. For instance, I have the tag Cooking but I would then like to be able to have tags under this main tag so I can then split Cooking into different types. This would be useful for saving in folders so that I then have a main folder Cooking and then sub-folders within this produced from the second set of tags.

08-18-2010, 09:31 AM	#3
banjomike Addict Posts: 319 Karma: 397404 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: UK Device: PRS-505,DSlibris,nook Glow & Simple & HD+,Tab S2,Moon+,Kobo Clara	Which devices would support "tags within tags"?

08-18-2010, 02:38 PM	#5
rabidrobot Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 18 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Sony Reader Touch	You can get close to tags-within-tags or sub-tags using punctuation eg "Food", "Food: Pie", "Food: Cheese". This has the benefit of not requiring supplemental device support. Does calibre support saving your library into a file structure based on the tags? I am confused how tags would become folders. I like the tag editor mock up! I too would make good use of additional functionality related to editing tags (and authors, publishers, & series for that matter). I guess there are a few approaches to tagging a library. Going through it systematically labeling entries with a limited number of distinct tags. Going through it systematically, downloading tags from metadata sources, labeling entries with innumerable (but thorough) distinct tags. And the approach I settled on, downloading a pantload of tags for the library, then going through and culling, merging, etc. until I am left with a reasonable number of distinct tags. All three approaches would benefit from a few additional capabilities on the Tag Management panel...I think lucidcrux defined those very well.

08-18-2010, 06:46 PM	#7
rabidrobot Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 18 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Sony Reader Touch	You are very right, theducks, excellent point. I also discovered that while calibre enforces its file structure for the purposes of maintaining a library, it also includes powerful templating for saving to disk, including tags as potential folder or filename components.

08-19-2010, 09:55 AM	#8
travger Evangelist Posts: 480 Karma: 270594 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: palm tx, Windows7, Galaxy A5	Nice mock-up! I have deleted most of the tags I got from metadata and ticked the option not to dl them. But if I do... So, I want the book to have tags 'science fiction', 'fantasy' and 'collection'. Metadata download blesses me with things like 'science fiction - general' 'science fiction - military' 'science fiction - American' 'science fiction - fantasy' +10 whatever else. Most of them are such as I never want to see among my tags. Problem is, that every time I download metadata, I get all those unnessesary tags back. Maybe there could be (growing) database of deleted tags? So that calibre sees: yep, that tag has been rejected, no need to offer it again. Or some kind of comparison between tags in the metadata and in my library; if there are new tags, calibre could list them for my acceptance/rejection.

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