09-01-2007, 03:31 PM | #31 |
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09-01-2007, 05:54 PM | #32 | ||
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You can copy and share small parts of the book (like quotations or part of a review). This is what is covered by "Fair Use". You can make a complete large print copy of the book for your own use (though technically, you probably can't then pass along the original book to another. Not that anyone will care in that instance.) You cannot scan the complete book to electronic form and distribute the electronic copy. The author (or the publisher, depending upon the contract) retains the reproduction rights. The physical book is yours to fold, spindle, mutilate, or pass along, as you chose. The content in the book is not. As an extension, you can't convert an ebook from one format to another, because you have been granted the right to purchase and read it in a specific format. (This is applicable basically to DRM protected books.) Now, all this is theory. I practice, I doubt anyone will care if you convert an ebook from one format to another for your own reading convenience. But if you convert a book from one format (say, DRM protected), into another (unprotected), and then merrily start copying and sharing with your friends, various folks are likely to care a lot. Copyright isn't taking rights away from you, because the rights covered weren't yours in the first place. ______ Dennis |
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09-01-2007, 06:53 PM | #33 |
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Referencing copyright law in the case of DRMed eBooks is sort of just muddying the water.
First of all, Nate is correct: Copyright law doesn't grant non-author rights - it takes them away. The purpose of copyright was to give authors a way to let their work be enjoyed by the public without unscrupulous people stealing the work. It does that by limiting the rights of the "owner" of the paper book. Dennis is partially correct when he says: "Copyright isn't taking rights away from you, because the rights covered weren't yours in the first place." He's incorrect about the "Copyright isn't taking rights away from you" part. But he's correct about the "the rights covered weren't yours in the first place." It isn't copyright that's the issue here. Its the fact that when you pay money for a DRMed eBook, you are not "buying" it - you are, in effect, renting it through a license agreement. Copyright doesn't any bearing on this. That's why DRM is so important to these publishers. It (very poorly) attempts to enforce the license agreement. The problem is that the people who paid money were led to believe that they purchased an eBook - just like they would have purchased a pBook - with all the purchaser rights thereof. Going back to my good example: Spook Country. $26 at Fictionwise as a DRMed eBook. $16 at Amazon.com as a pBook. Now, as an informed buyer, which has better value? The pBook, that costs less and can be resold when you are done reading it? Or the eBook, that costs more, and cannot be resold? Taking that one step further. Which is a better value? Renting that eBook from Fictionwise for $26, or renting it from your local library for free? |
09-01-2007, 07:06 PM | #34 | ||
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Then, the printing press was invented. Suddenly, it was easy to make multiple copies of a book. Publishers would buy a book from a competitor and run off some copies to sell. This was legal before copyright. After copyright was invented, this was no longer possible. You couldn't buy a book and turn out copies. Thus, one of your rights over your property was taken away. If I am wrong, then please explain what rights copyright law gives me that I did not already have. Quote:
Ponder this: When a copyright is issued, it protects the content. We agree on this. This one copyright covers the content when it is on paper and when it is in an ebook. It's the same copyright. If, under fair use, I can take the content in one form(paper) and make a copy (to enlarge the text), then why can't I take the content in one form(ebook format) and make a copy (change to another ebook format)? |
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09-02-2007, 02:25 AM | #35 | |
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09-02-2007, 02:28 AM | #36 | |
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The original question asked, though, was whether or not you can re-sell your converted book. The answer is clearly "no", just as you can't re-sell your enlarged photocopy. It's OK only for your personal use. |
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09-02-2007, 03:16 AM | #37 | |
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What do you mean by "licence"?
Nate,
You keep coming back to the issue of a "licences" and I'm not at all sure what you mean by the word. When I look in the dictionary, the most appropriate definition I find is: Quote:
What do you mean by the word "license"? We can't meaningfully talk about it unless we know that we are both talking about the same thing! |
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09-02-2007, 05:51 AM | #38 | |
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1. Authority or liberty given to do or forbear any act; especially, a formal permission from the proper authorities to perform certain acts or to carry on a certain business, which without such permission would be illegal; a grant of permission; as, a license to preach, to practice medicine, to sell gunpowder or intoxicating liquors. The wording is all based on giving permission to do something. Copyright is NOT a license because it is not giving me permission. It's restricting me from making a copy. When I pay for a pBook, I am restricted by copyright from doing certain things (mainly making a copy and selling it). There is NO list of what I am permitted do to with that book. When I pay for a DRMed eBook, the license lists what I am permitted to do with that DRMed eBook. |
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09-02-2007, 08:35 AM | #39 | ||
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early for me, so not my best work
Here you used license to mean "rights under the law".
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I started this discussion in order to ask some questions; when you buy an ebook, are you paying for ownership or a license? Why do so many people assume that it is a license? What legal basis exists to support the assumption? Some people here automatically assume that you buy a license, not ownership. I disagree. When I buy a pbook, I own the pbook. Similarly, when I buy an ebook, I expect to own the ebook. If I don't own it, then I don't buy it. I really want to learn what the law says. I suspect that there is no law to support the assumption that the buyer is purchasing a license, not ownership. |
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09-02-2007, 08:43 AM | #40 | ||
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That is correct. That is what I mean by the word. I get the impression, though, that you mean something a little different?
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09-02-2007, 09:06 AM | #41 |
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Let me give you a few examples of how the word "license" could be used.
A patent holder can license a patent. Ownership is not transferred; permission to use is granted. You can buy a software license from Microsoft that grants you permission to install Windows on up to X number of computers (say 5, 10, or 20, etc.). The above examples are explicit agreements. I want to know why there is the assumption that there is an implicit license on an ebook. If an ebook is licensed, then you don't actually own it. Any restrictions placed on the file is perfectly legal. If the ebook is owned, not licensed, then DRM and the DMCA both violate my rights over my property. |
09-02-2007, 09:23 AM | #42 |
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I'm sorry Nate, I don't understand what the issue is. If you go to Fictionwise and buy a book with MobiPocket DRM, say, then the site clearly tells you before you buy it that you will only be able to read the book on certain specified devices, and that you won't be able to print it. Those are restrictions imposed by the DRM mechanism, and you are buying the eBook with the full knowledge of what those restrictions are.
We seem to be talking semantics - you can call those restrictions a "licence" if you wish. Whatever you want to call them, the restrictions on your use of that file are certainly legal; you are being told about them before you make the purchase, and are agreeing to the terms of the sale by buying that eBook with those restrictions. |
09-02-2007, 02:05 PM | #43 | ||
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______ Dennis |
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09-02-2007, 02:23 PM | #44 | ||
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Essentially, copyright acknowledges that the creator owns the content, and has the right to control how the content is distributed. Copyrights are time-limited, and expire. How long copyrights last varies depending upon local law. Since we have had copyright since long before either of us was born, you have never had the right to copy the content, unless the copyright holder explicitly permitted it, by something like the Creative Commons license. It's nonsense to talk about rights being taken away that you never had in the first place. Quote:
______ Dennis |
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09-02-2007, 02:25 PM | #45 | |
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His complaint seems far more about what are essentially licensing issues (IE: can he legally convert from one eformat to another) than with copyright per se. ______ Dennis |
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