Punctuation

[jgray]

I just came across a nice page which summarizes the use of the proper HTML character entities for common punctuation. I know this has been discussed before, but this page is a nice summary.

http://csswizardry.com/toybox/punctuation-glyphs/

The one point of the chart I questioned is the use of the hair space around an em-dash. According to Wikipedia, it is not commonly used (at least in the US).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_%..._around_dashes

[HarryT]

Certainly in British English it is not normal to have spaces around an em- or en-dash.

[frabjous]

In my experience, there are two common styles. One is to use em dashes—but without spaces—for interrupting text, and the other is to use en dashes – but with spaces – for interrupting text.

But if the spaces around emdashes were really hairline, maybe I just haven't noticed.

I don't think there's a difference between the UK and US here; just a difference between different publishers. Regarding my own publications, some of those published in the US and been done done one way and some the other, and some of my publications published in the UK have been done one way and some the other.

Personally I’ve been moving more and more in the direction of just using the actual characters, saved in utf-8, rather than the HTML character codes. (In part because this makes conversions between formats easier.) All recent (X)HTML-rendering programs should support either one.

[charleski]

The Chicago Manual of Style recommends em-dashes without spaces, and the style originated with US publishers. Bringhurst recommends en-dashes spaced from the text, this originated with Penguin in the UK. But there's certainly a lot of crossover.

Since some readers don't recognise either form of dash as a word-boundary, I prefer spaced en-dashes to prevent awkward line-breaks.

[neilmarr]

***In my experience, there are two common styles. One is to use em dashes—but without spaces—for interrupting text, and the other is to use en dashes – but with spaces – for interrupting text***

Our own house style, Frab and Charles, is spaced en dashes (also spaced ellipses). There's no hard-and-fast rule; we just feel this looks neater on the page (treebook or ebook). Like many fine points of style (presentation of figures, times of the day, dates, etc), I reckon what really matters is absolute consistency within any particular work. Cheers. Neil

[Ea]

Originally Posted by charleski

Since some readers don't recognise either form of dash as a word-boundary, I prefer spaced en-dashes to prevent awkward line-breaks.

Exactly. When I format books for myself, I always add spaces around the dashes for this reason, and because it looks more aesthetically pleasing. No spaces gives it a very 'blocky' look. The rules are guide-lines and not the law, after all.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by frabjous

In my experience, there are two common styles. One is to use em dashes—but without spaces—for interrupting text, and the other is to use en dashes – but with spaces – for interrupting text.

That's my impression too, though not being a native English speaker/reader I might be wrong.

Originally Posted by charleski

Since some readers don't recognise either form of dash as a word-boundary, I prefer spaced en-dashes to prevent awkward line-breaks.

Exactly my situation as well, I started using space-endash-space in my books because the mobi reader in my Cybook did not break at em-dashes.

Now I find the opposite situation in Adobe's ePUB engine: it breaks at em-dashes, which is wrong in Spanish typography, where dashes are typically spaced only on one side (the "outer" side), and line breaks are only allowed at the spaces.

Oh... ellipses I don't use, because I prefer dots separated by non-breaking spaces en English, and just three dots in Spanish. As for entities, I use them (instead of the unicode characters) when I can't easily enter them with my keyboard configuration, or when they are not clearly identifiable in monospaced fonts.

[=X=]

To build on HarryT post, most American English books have no spaces. Personally I like the look without spaces it is easier to see the break (interruption) and thus it is emphasized even more.

=X=

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Exactly my situation as well, I started using space-endash-space in my books because the mobi reader in my Cybook did not break at em-dashes.

In the later firmware, where hyphenation support was added to Mobi, it did start breaking lines at a dash, but even more horribly, it would then add a hyphen after the dash! I think this is clearly a bug in Mobi reader.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In the later firmware, where hyphenation support was added to Mobi, it did start breaking lines at a dash, but even more horribly, it would then add a hyphen after the dash! I think this is clearly a bug in Mobi reader.

Ah, yes, I forgot about that (at that time I was using space-dash-space already)

[Valloric]

Originally Posted by =X=

To build on HarryT post, most American English books have no spaces.

Really?Thatmustbeverydifficulttoread.Ican'timagine howyoumanage.