Empty genres; or what to do with all those -punks?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

History is littered with things that were always one way until they weren’t. Any better reason?

There's no need for a better reason. Just leave punk alone and find some other term for fantasy.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There's no need for a better reason. Just leave punk alone and find some other term for fantasy.

I notice you ignored my post that showed you are wrong.

Just to act like you for a minute:
Please read post #105 and then amend your incorrect post.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There's no need for a better reason. Just leave punk alone and find some other term for fantasy.

So you’re in favor of more sub genres and wholeheartedly agree that they should be created even when they already exist under another genre. I’m putting aside the fact that you’re wrong about *punk being exclusive to science fiction.

[astrangerhere]

Ada Palmer, who's Terra Ignota series has been broadly labeled as hopepunk (it is how many major reviewers described it), wrote a really interesting piece on this here. An excerpt, emphasis added:

Rowland coined hopepunk in July 2017 as the “opposite of grimdark.” Associated terms such as noblebright, solarpunk, greenpunk, or ecotopia join hopepunk to sketch out a body of imagined worlds which are positive but not utopias, because their positivity lies, not in the world already being excellent, but in the world moving toward the better thanks to the efforts of excellent people who work to make a difference. It is a subgenre tied to resistance: as Rowland put it punk = “fight the man” + hope = “we deserve a better world”. Hopepunk stories tend to showcase cooperation, collective action, resilience, partial victories as the world is moved toward, not to, a better state, ending with (re)construction underway and the world changing, not changed. The subgenre has also been described as weaponized optimism, and as rising from a culture of resistance, specifically anti-authoritarian resistance which swelled around the globe in the wake of 2016, connected with what Malka Older has called speculative resistance, the use of fictional worlds to encourage resistance by showing alternatives to the systems we have now...

The opening of the piece discusses punk as a form of resistance and absolutely nothing to do with science fiction. I tend to agree.

[JSWolf]

https://www.alibris.com/blog/an-intr...lative-fiction

In the broadest sense, the punk subculture is about anti-authoritarianism, anti-big corporate, and personal freedom. In the literary world, this is seen most often in the speculative (namely, sci-fi) genre where current-day anxieties and issues can be examined in a fantastical way. Many of these genres have been co-opted in visual mediums because of their aesthetic value. But in cool media such as literature, the commentary is front and center.

https://bkbass.com/main/essays-artic...verything-punk

‘Punk fiction is a group of speculative fiction genres which strive to move outside the boundaries of established science fiction and fantasy norms. Many of these genres will either focus on the effects of technology upon a society, or propose a fictional society with anachronistic levels of technology—sometimes referred to as ‘retrofuturism‘. Sometimes magical elements may be used and intertwined with the available technology. Works under this family of genres typically address social issues and express an anti-establishment stance.

[hildea]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

Ada Palmer, who's Terra Ignota series has been broadly labeled as hopepunk (it is how many major reviewers described it), wrote a really interesting piece on this here.

Thanks, I liked this a lot, and it had several recommendations I'll check out.

Parts of it reminded me of this quote from Lois McMaster Bujold's "The Borders of Infinity":

"Now, there's this about cynicism, Sergeant. It's the universe's most supine moral position. Real comfortable. If nothing can be done, then you're not some kind of shit for not doing it, and you can lie there and stink to yourself in perfect peace."

I found another poem with a hopepunk worldview: Aurora Levins Morales: V'ahavta. It starts:

Say these words when you lie down and when you rise up,
when you go out and when you return. In times of mourning
and in times of joy. Inscribe them on your doorposts,
embroider them on your garments, tattoo them on your shoulders,
teach them to your children, your neighbors, your enemies,
recite them in your sleep, here in the cruel shadow of empire:
Another world is possible.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

https://www.alibris.com/blog/an-intr...lative-fiction


https://bkbass.com/main/essays-artic...verything-punk

I presume you're trying to argue with yourself at this point

‘Punk fiction is a group of speculative fiction genres which strive to move outside the boundaries of established science fiction and fantasy norms. Many of these genres will either focus on the effects of technology upon a society, or propose a fictional society with anachronistic levels of technology—sometimes referred to as ‘retrofuturism‘. Sometimes magical elements may be used and intertwined with the available technology. Works under this family of genres typically address social issues and express an anti-establishment stance.

Emphasis mine.