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Old 10-29-2014, 01:28 PM   #16
Moloko
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PRS-T2, Sony was the perfect reader for me too, it had all the things I needed and liked. Can you tell me why the dictionary on Kobo sucks? I'm mainly interested in the English dictionary, as that's the language I read most in these days, but are there other languages translations available (like French to English, German to English) like we have on the PRS's? I took a look at the other e-readers available (Poketbook, Bokeen, etc) but the reviews and general opinions on them aren't stellar.

Additionally, how are the footnotes handled on the Kobo (can it even handle them without tweaking things in Calibre/Sigil)? I tend to read a lot of history books, which are usually loaded with footnotes so that would matter a lot. I think that on the Kindle that doesn't tend to be an issue.

Regarding collections/shelves: on my PRST1 I have the books organized in collections by tags. I don't tend to assign different tags to the same book, just throw them in general categories (eg history, mystery, literature, mythology, etc.). I know there's a thread on how to create collections/shelves on the Kobo. Now that I know that's impossible to do that the way I prefer (Calibre) with the Voyage, that makes me look more towards the H2O.

About the price difference: it looks like the Kobo was dropped from all previous sellers in my country, so I would have to order it from abroad. The Kindle will be brought in, I'm sure, only that it's going to be available later (perhaps around December if not early next year). As I mentioned before, I'm not in a huge hurry, but I would like to get it around December - January. For any of them I would have to order it from abroad and with the shipping and taxes they'll both end up being expensive. Which I don't mind, it's not like I'm changing e-readers every week. However, I'd like quality and ease in use.

Indexing won't be an issue either. I would surely love to use the reader as soon as possible, but I can wait until everything's done even if it takes a few hours. Does that happen though each time you add a large amount of books or only the first time when the database on the reader is built? Can you search through categories or through the entire list for certain titles on both Kindle and Kobo though?

It feels more and more like actually downgrading than upgrading to a new e-reader...Sony really had us spoiled with all the options and extras. Oh well, I really need a front lit reader as my fiance is tired of going to sleep with the light on

ETA: on my current reader I just sideload books via Calibre. The only thing I'm modifying in Calibre are the book covers and metadata. I don't tend to change the spacing, margins, fonts, etc as I'm a fairly not picky reader - as long as the text is readable I don't particularly care for that. I think that in all these years I only modified 2 books that were a complete mess due to changing the format. They were older history books of one of my professors that the Uni scanned and converted in ePub, so obviously they were unreadable without the tweaks. So I'm not too keen on having to deal with modifying every book to make it readable but I don't mind small issues (that for me are related to margins, headers, etc).

Last edited by Moloko; 10-29-2014 at 01:42 PM. Reason: additional stuff
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Old 10-29-2014, 03:11 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Moloko View Post
PRS-T2, Sony was the perfect reader for me too, it had all the things I needed and liked. Can you tell me why the dictionary on Kobo sucks? I'm mainly interested in the English dictionary, as that's the language I read most in these days, but are there other languages translations available (like French to English, German to English) like we have on the PRS's? I took a look at the other e-readers available (Poketbook, Bokeen, etc) but the reviews and general opinions on them aren't stellar.

Additionally, how are the footnotes handled on the Kobo (can it even handle them without tweaking things in Calibre/Sigil)? I tend to read a lot of history books, which are usually loaded with footnotes so that would matter a lot. I think that on the Kindle that doesn't tend to be an issue.
The newer models of Kindle (but not my Touch) are supposed to handle this very well, yes. I have heard of no complaints getting them to show, it does not require updating old books... It recognizes the link and turns all text between the target and the next backlink into a popup.

Quote:
Regarding collections/shelves: on my PRST1 I have the books organized in collections by tags. I don't tend to assign different tags to the same book, just throw them in general categories (eg history, mystery, literature, mythology, etc.). I know there's a thread on how to create collections/shelves on the Kobo. Now that I know that's impossible to do that the way I prefer (Calibre) with the Voyage, that makes me look more towards the H2O.

About the price difference: it looks like the Kobo was dropped from all previous sellers in my country, so I would have to order it from abroad. The Kindle will be brought in, I'm sure, only that it's going to be available later (perhaps around December if not early next year). As I mentioned before, I'm not in a huge hurry, but I would like to get it around December - January. For any of them I would have to order it from abroad and with the shipping and taxes they'll both end up being expensive. Which I don't mind, it's not like I'm changing e-readers every week. However, I'd like quality and ease in use.

Indexing won't be an issue either. I would surely love to use the reader as soon as possible, but I can wait until everything's done even if it takes a few hours. Does that happen though each time you add a large amount of books or only the first time when the database on the reader is built? Can you search through categories or through the entire list for certain titles on both Kindle and Kobo though?
On the Kindle, books show up immediately. It takes a little time for them to index for inside-the-book search, but in the meantime searching will still match on the title and author. (You will see a search result with no number next to it, indicating that there are no hits from inside the book.)

Quote:
It feels more and more like actually downgrading than upgrading to a new e-reader...Sony really had us spoiled with all the options and extras. Oh well, I really need a front lit reader as my fiance is tired of going to sleep with the light on
Both Kobo and Kindle have earlier ereaders with frontlights. Maybe take a look at one of them? The PW2 should be pretty much identical to the Voyage, except with a jailbreakable firmware version, the older screen which is still pretty good and no page turn buttons. It even shares the same processor, from what I've heard.

I would get the PW2 except I prefer the physical home button.

Quote:
ETA: on my current reader I just sideload books via Calibre. The only thing I'm modifying in Calibre are the book covers and metadata. I don't tend to change the spacing, margins, fonts, etc as I'm a fairly not picky reader - as long as the text is readable I don't particularly care for that. I think that in all these years I only modified 2 books that were a complete mess due to changing the format. They were older history books of one of my professors that the Uni scanned and converted in ePub, so obviously they were unreadable without the tweaks. So I'm not too keen on having to deal with modifying every book to make it readable but I don't mind small issues (that for me are related to margins, headers, etc).
Does it count if you have to convert the format? other than that, the Kindle does not require any special treatment in my experience.
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:22 PM   #18
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Hey Moloko, see? The more you tell about your personal use of the current device, the more and better can these guys here help you out with the insight you need. I know how hard it is to let go of what felt like the perfect reader for years, especially after making excessive use of it's perfectly implemented particular functions all the time.
Calibre, footnotes, performance under heavy load, wikipedia access, accessibility and quality of dictionaries, ... and all that in direct comparison to the outdated device you know is capable of to your liking: Reviews normally don't cover it widely enough or at all. I don't have much to add except for a massive to all the mobilereaders who tried and figure how you (or we) would use a device that's unknown to you (us). It's a big help for guys who need a new home for reading like we Sonyiacs do now!!

Thank you for stripping away the usual review blingbling, what's in the package, how is it packed, will the edges of the device hurt fingers made of jelly, is it fancier than others, is there a change in resolution that no one would see from usual reading distance but has to be hyped over real life reading anyways etc. Thanks for the focus

To answer the question about Kobo and dictionaries: While playing around at the store, I found it pretty much useless for e.g. conjugated verbs. Also, it showed blank for too many words that Kindle and Sony would find. The depth of explanation was also far below the Sony and its Collins'. Kobo is pretty much dead for me until they offer the chance to buy and implement real dictionaries from publishers. Kindle does that, but where I live I'd risk warranty void by jailbreaking a device (Paperwhite), which
  • doesn't havw a brighter screen (brighter than your T1's though, definitely!) with the (for me) annoying, cold frontlight turned off and
  • makes me loose the four buttons I really like on the T2,

in order to work right with the best ebook managemet tool in the world, calibre.

The conversion from Epub to AZW for Kindle wouldn't be a prob for most of my books, but I'm really not sure about history books and the truckload of footnotes, which come with those. I know how massive these footnotes can become, because my wife studied archival science (and works in that field for over a decade) and tossed alot onto her T1 To me it often seemed to carry more footnote than continuous text.

You should try and test that in a store with the most footnote-ridden books you can bring in. Or:

"Historians around? Anyone?"
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by PRS-T2 View Post
Thank you for stripping away the usual review blingbling, what's in the package, how is it packed, will the edges of the device hurt fingers made of jelly, is it fancier than others, is there a change in resolution that no one would see from usual reading distance but has to be hyped over real life reading anyways etc. Thanks for the focus
Hey, we actually use these things, you know.

P.S. I would not worry about the warranty voiding. People have sent in their jailbroken Kindles for repair/replacement before, and no one noticed.

Amazon is not checking the firmware for oddities, their drones are just trying to turn them on and chucking them in a bin most likely. Waste of time to do otherwise, when they are just going to reflash the whole thing anyway. And it would cost more time to do the checking ON EVERY SINGLE KINDLE than they would save by catching the relatively small handful that jailbreak theirs.

About the only thing you could do to make them notice is, I suppose, using the screensavers hack and sending in a Kindle with a very suspiciously NOT Amazon-provided screensaver... they couldn't fail to notice that.

As of yet, no one has ever reported doing so. "Coincidentally", no one has reported Amazon refusing their Kindle for warranty violations either.

Amazon is just trying to scare people into not causing trouble, it is an empty threat.

Last edited by eschwartz; 10-29-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 10-29-2014, 08:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Moloko View Post
Additionally, how are the footnotes handled on the Kobo (can it even handle them without tweaking things in Calibre/Sigil)? I tend to read a lot of history books, which are usually loaded with footnotes so that would matter a lot. I think that on the Kindle that doesn't tend to be an issue.
If the footnotes are done correctly in the epub they will work on a Kobo. In a standard epub they will jump you to the footnote (which is typically an endnote in an ebook), then you can jump back. Since you're using Calibre anyway you can send your books to the Kobo as a kepub and then you will get an instant preview popup of the footnote (about 6 or 8 lines worth, usually enough for the whole thing, but if not you can still jump to the full thing if it is longer). Jumping to the end in a true epub is slightly slower.
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Old 10-29-2014, 09:40 PM   #21
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Hey, we actually use these things, you know.
What the heck do I know, I'm just a law-abiding Kraut haha, therefore my English is too bad to make the point like you just did with that one-liner

Eschwartz, seriously, you just made my day, or what's left of it (almost past bed-time over here) by stating the obvious: why should Amazon give a fuck about their cross-financed readers anyway?

Question: do they roll out FW updates OTA with or without asking for user's permission to install? Just because when I'm busy reading at a place that's not home, I might not have a chance to roll back FW and jailbreak. Turning off WiFi or 3G is not so much of an option because snappy Wikipedia access is too sexy with some books.

And Calibre: can Kindle really transform tags into collections with a sync, even if a book has more than one tag (each tag -> book goes into corresponding collection, if not there, build it)?
And does it handle series? I trained the Sony to fill a collection with books that are part of a series, called it SERIES ABC. It shows all series, series names in alphabetical order; within that, ordered by episodes.

<book title>
<author> - <series A title> - <001>
<book title>
<author> - <series A title> - <002>
<book title>
<author> - <series A title> - <003>
<book title>
<author> - <series B title> - <001>
<book title>
<author> - <series B title> - <002>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <001>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <002>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <003>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <004>
...
...
...



Of course, each book of a series is filed under its genre tag(s) based collection(s). In all lists I can see which book belongs to which series and its series number as well. I don't want collections by series (each series one collection) mixed with the list of collections by genres.

My Calibre workflow to achieve this with current setup per book: add tags for author, title, genre(s), series title (if any) and series number (if any), then sync.

Fuck, hard to explain all that in English, sorry guys! Gotta go catch up with sleep now...
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by PRS-T2 View Post
Question: do they roll out FW updates OTA with or without asking for user's permission to install? Just because when I'm busy reading at a place that's not home, I might not have a chance to roll back FW and jailbreak. Turning off WiFi or 3G is not so much of an option because snappy Wikipedia access is too sexy with some books.
Amazon assumes most of their users don't Have A Clue* (which is reasonable ) and they update silently. We have a workaround for that here: Kindle_Touch_Hacking#Blocking_Official_Updates


* -- Awesome T-Shirt.
Quote:
And Calibre: can Kindle really transform tags into collections with a sync, even if a book has more than one tag (each tag -> book goes into corresponding collection, if not there, build it)?
And does it handle series? I trained the Sony to fill a collection with books that are part of a series, called it SERIES ABC. It shows all series, series names in alphabetical order; within that, ordered by episodes.

<book title>
<author> - <series A title> - <001>
<book title>
<author> - <series A title> - <002>
<book title>
<author> - <series A title> - <003>
<book title>
<author> - <series B title> - <001>
<book title>
<author> - <series B title> - <002>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <001>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <002>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <003>
<book title>
<author> - <series C title> - <004>
...
...
...



Of course, each book of a series is filed under its genre tag(s) based collection(s). In all lists I can see which book belongs to which series and its series number as well. I don't want collections by series (each series one collection) mixed with the list of collections by genres.

My Calibre workflow to achieve this with current setup per book: add tags for author, title, genre(s), series title (if any) and series number (if any), then sync.
Using the [GUI Plugin] Kindle Collections, you can export collections based on any calibre metadata, just like with the Kobo/Sony.

You will need to import it into the Kindle, using LibrarianSync (this requires the jailbreak).

Other than that, it is much the same -- except that the Kindle Collections plugin takes the opportunity to add fine-grained customization of which collections get created, and a few other fancy things.

Quote:
hard to explain all that in English, sorry guys! Gotta go catch up with sleep now...
Do not apologize for not sharing the same native language as us. We understand, and will bear with you.

(And I do note that many foreigners speak better English than some Americans. I have seen and heard some atrocious English from the people who REALLY should know better. FAR worse than yours.

Your English is quite good, from what I have seen of it. )

Last edited by eschwartz; 10-29-2014 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Moloko View Post
...

Additionally, how are the footnotes handled on the Kobo (can it even handle them without tweaking things in Calibre/Sigil)? I tend to read a lot of history books, which are usually loaded with footnotes so that would matter a lot. I think that on the Kindle that doesn't tend to be an issue.

...
For EPubs on Kobo's I find that footnotes worked very poorly; it is very hard to click on the link.

For kepubs, they work very well.
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Old 10-30-2014, 12:59 PM   #24
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Thank you very much you guys, you've been all really helpful!

I'm leaning more and more towards the H2O. I'm thinking that if I won't like it very much I'll just buy the next version of the Voyage, seeing how currently it has all these issues with the screens and the return for a better screen seems to be a real lottery. I would go with the Voyage but for this issue. Plus I'm thinking that the 2nd generation will end up being much better with the "buttons" too, if they decide to keep them.

And I'm going to sound like a whiny kid, but I want the best and the newest and the shiniest and I don't want an older model.

I can convert my ePubs to kepubs for the footnotes so that's awesome to know. I don't mind converting to whatever format in order to make everything work.

Some final questions:
1. Can the H2O be charged with a regular mini USB wall charger or does it have a proprietary type of USB resulting in only being able to use the cable it comes with?

2. Is Kobo's CS really as horrendous as described by most people that shared their experience?
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:05 PM   #25
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Standard micro-USB connector. Micro, not mini.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:14 PM   #26
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Oops, I meant micro.

Thanks for the info Harry!
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:24 PM   #27
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Quote:
Amazon assumes most of their users don't Have A Clue* (which is reasonable ) and they update silently. We have a workaround for that here: Kindle_Touch_Hacking#Blocking_Official_Updates
Eschwartz, THAT SHIRT IS BLOODY BRILLIANT!!!!

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction here. I will check the workaround this weekend

Quote:
Other than that, it is much the same -- except that the Kindle Collections plugin takes the opportunity to add fine-grained customization of which collections get created, and a few other fancy things.
Well that sounds really promising. I recall having a blast with tweaking Calibre to make the Sony eat my s**t the way I wanted it to. The guys behind Calibre and its plugins are the real inventors around ereading, if you ask me. Without them, I'd never have reached a comfy zone for reading outside paper^^

Quote:
Do not apologize for not sharing the same native language as us. We understand, and will bear with you.

(And I do note that many foreigners speak better English than some Americans. I have seen and heard some atrocious English from the people who REALLY should know better. FAR worse than yours.

Your English is quite good, from what I have seen of it. )
Haha thanks for flattering
I just felt my verbosely writing might seem a bit awkward to you natives here, therefore my apology. And yes, same here with natives speaking a, ehm, "reduced" version of what was formerly know as German language. Do you know the movie "Idiocracy"? It's a stupid, hilarious one, but there are certain messages it just got right

I will wait for the PocketBook InkPad and have a look at the Touch Lux 2 and Ultra, as soon as their new FW is rolled out. In the meantime, I will toy with Calibre and Kindle until the Voyage is available over here AND jailbreakable.
If Pocketbook again turns out to have displays inferior to my PRS-T2, I will go the Kindle route... Thanks again for your insight and (hehe) please be prepared for more geek talk, should I go Kindle...
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:11 PM   #28
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Some final questions:
1. Can the H2O be charged with a regular mini USB wall charger or does it have a proprietary type of USB resulting in only being able to use the cable it comes with?
As Harry said almost any micro USB should work.

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2. Is Kobo's CS really as horrendous as described by most people that shared their experience?
Yes and no. It's very "uneven". Some people have had terrible experiences, some have had good experiences. My experiences (not recent) weren't spectacular. If you need technical help, start here with Mobileread. Most customer service (most companies) really don't have a clue and/or are following a script. If you have legitimate hardware* or warranty problems Kobo will get it looked after, but it may not be a fast experience.

Having said all that, chances are you won't need customer service anyway so it becomes a moot point.

* - I put legitimate because in past there have been people complaining that Kobo wouldn't cover a broken screen and that they had done nothing to break it, even if there was visual evidence in photo's they put up that suggested a point impact breakage.
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Old 10-30-2014, 06:55 PM   #29
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I will wait for the PocketBook InkPad and have a look at the Touch Lux 2 and Ultra, as soon as their new FW is rolled out. In the meantime, I will toy with Calibre and Kindle until the Voyage is available over here AND jailbreakable.
If Pocketbook again turns out to have displays inferior to my PRS-T2, I will go the Kindle route... Thanks again for your insight and (hehe) please be prepared for more geek talk, should I go Kindle...
Oh do come back here and share the experience with the PoketBook, please. I'm not sure if any physical store carries it around my area to see it personally.

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Originally Posted by robko View Post
Yes and no. It's very "uneven". Some people have had terrible experiences, some have had good experiences. My experiences (not recent) weren't spectacular. If you need technical help, start here with Mobileread. Most customer service (most companies) really don't have a clue and/or are following a script. If you have legitimate hardware* or warranty problems Kobo will get it looked after, but it may not be a fast experience.
Oh, I wouldn't dream going for real tech support to Kobo, I know the folks here at Mobileread would be much more helpful with that. But, say, the e-reader just stops working or has hardware issues, will Kobo just throw their hands in the air and pretend nothing ever happened or will they replace the unit/?
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Old 10-30-2014, 07:22 PM   #30
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Ha Moloko, you've got me there! I forgot to mention I'd be back anyway to report what happened^^

I subscribed to this thread already and will leave a note whether we meet in Kindle or Pocketbook section. You do the same with Kobo, deal?
Would be nice to see how my fellow Sonyiac arrived in his new system

My plan is to rebuild the Sony comfort and find some new features I DIDN'T have before. Heck, if I end up happy with Kindle, I might even slaughter a paperwhite and try to colour the leds with a filter if that's possible. I love waaarm reading light and always warm-toned the MightyLights for my Sony. I never heard of someone doing something like that, but maybe it's possible after all...

Regarding your support question: I wouldn't mind that since we have a dealer's warranty. If that applies in your country, too, you're better off with that than with any of the manufacturers'. At least that's a point where Sony is no better than the rest ;-)

Good luck and see you guys around!
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