The Vent and Rant Thread

[WT Sharpe]

Whenever I call my wife "The Boss," she replies, "Just don't ever forget it." Beyond the jokes, though, we have a pretty egalitarian relationship. We must be doing something right. We've known each other since 1967 and have been married for 41 of those years.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The fact that a lot of men call their wife "the boss" or "the accountant" or "my banker" or similar terms behind their backs, accompanied by a sneer stamped on their faces says enough, IMHO. Personally, I'd not stand for it and quit the relationship. It's clearly lopsided, or one would call the woman "my partner", "my wife", or "my girlfriend" and be proud of it.

Oh please. Every adult relationship has some areas where one person does more then the other. I bitch about my husbands inability to put dishes in a dishwater, use a hamper, and generally clean anything. That doesn't mean that I think that all men are helpless pigs. It means I bitch once a week about his inability to load a dish washer.

Seriously? If you can't look past silly stuff you are not going to find anyone or you will find a doormat.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Oh please. Every adult relationship has some areas where one person does more then the other. I bitch about my husbands inability to put dishes in a dishwater, use a hamper, and generally clean anything. That doesn't mean that I think that all men are helpless pigs. It means I bitch once a week about his inability to load a dish washer.

Seriously? If you can't look past silly stuff you are not going to find anyone or you will find a doormat.

Amen!

[Stitchawl]

Anyone who thinks Japanese women are subservient has absolutely NO idea of Japan, its culture, or its women! While there are definite 'roles' for men and women, and on the surface it may 'appear' that women are 'serving' the men, it might be a good idea to start to wonder 'why' the majority of Japanese women have not embraced 'Women's Lib' while the rest of the world's women 'need' it and should have it! The only aspect of Women's Lib embraced by Japanese women is 'equal pay for equal work.' Nothing else. And the reason being... they already have all the rest. They are far more assertive than American women, but without the need to be aggressive. Personally, I prefer assertive women as companions.

Most people are familiar with the concept of the 'Jewish American Princess,' the stereotype of the outwardly attractive, internally spoiled, greedy, complicated, self-righteous, and obnoxiously difficult and overbearing female. Granted, it IS a 'stereotype.' But... stereotypes come into being for a reason. This concept doesn't exist in Japan. Japan has other stereotypes that emerge more as fashion statements than personality types. And obviously, I'm speaking in generalities, observations I've made from living there so many years, dating there as a single man, and being married into the culture for almost 20 years. My views and opinions changed often as the time I spent there increased and I learned more about the people and the culture. What is seen on the surface is NOT the reality. It's 'tatemae,' perhaps the single most important aspect difference between Japanese and Western culture.


Stitchawl

[Salgueiros]

I don't like when people (man or woman) call his significant other "boss" or something similar. I don't like anyone doing what I am supposed to do and want to do.

And I don't understand women who don't put toilets seats down without whining! Can't they use they effing hands? I also have to put it up every time i have to use it to pee!

[Salgueiros]

I travel a lot abroad (in all continents) and by my experience the women that i find most frequently travelling alone is by far Japanese. That says a lot about their mentality. I think people mistake politeness and gracefulness for deference. Not the same. In the younger generations at least.

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Whenever I call my wife "The Boss," she replies, "Just don't ever forget it." Beyond the jokes, though, we have a pretty egalitarian relationship. We must be doing something right. We've known each other since 1967 and have been married for 41 of those years.

You're doing better than most Japanese men! In the average Japanese family, the wife handles ALL of the financial decisions, makes unilateral decisions about anything affecting living arrangements, family, children, schooling, buying a new car, new washing machine, travel, vacations, etc., etc. His job is just to work six and a half days a week, leaving the house at 7am and getting back around 10pm, his salary gets direct-deposited in the bank, and his wife doles out a daily allowance to him.

Divorce rate in Japan is aprox. 27%
Divorce rate in the US?


Stitchawl

[Stitchawl]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

I think people mistake politeness and gracefulness for deference. Not the same.

Well said!


Stitchawl

[Freeshadow]

Katsunami
As for you gf preferences, AFAIR you can get t-shirts saying: "I look for a Japanese girlfriend" in Japanese.
As for your marriage fears: Isn't a "Dutch wife" just a pillow?

[cromag]

(The stay-at-home dad is staying out of this one! )

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Doesn't that text beneath your avatar say, "Not scared?"

Hitch

Maybe it should read "not scarred yet!"

[samhy]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

You're doing better than most Japanese men! In the average Japanese family, the wife handles ALL of the financial decisions, makes unilateral decisions about anything affecting living arrangements, family, children, schooling, buying a new car, new washing machine, travel, vacations, etc., etc. His job is just to work six and a half days a week, leaving the house at 7am and getting back around 10pm, his salary gets direct-deposited in the bank, and his wife doles out a daily allowance to him.

Divorce rate in Japan is aprox. 27%
Divorce rate in the US?


Stitchawl

It matches what I've seen. Also the main reason for divorce, around me in Tokyo, was lost of income from the husband.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

I think people mistake politeness and gracefulness for deference. Not the same. In the younger generations at least.

Maybe that's it. If an issue we disagreed about needed to be discussed the two Japanese girlfriends did so gracefully by providing solid arguments for their viewpoints. All the Dutch girlfriends (apart from one, on good days, three in total) disagreed by throwing temper tantrums after I failed to see the single reason of "because I want it like that."

I can tell you that the former is *MUCH* more likely to make me change my own viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

You're doing better than most Japanese men! In the average Japanese family, the wife handles ALL of the financial decisions, makes unilateral decisions about anything affecting living arrangements, family, children, schooling, buying a new car, new washing machine, travel, vacations, etc., etc. His job is just to work six and a half days a week, leaving the house at 7am and getting back around 10pm, his salary gets direct-deposited in the bank, and his wife doles out a daily allowance to him.

In short: the man is only there to bring in money for something like 40 years and shut up regarding all domestic decisions. I think that's quite a bleak life. If it would have to be like that, I'd rather stay single like... forever.

It was like that in the Netherlands as well up to around the late 60's by the way, but it has been changing. Now it's not only expected (and often, even necessary...) that women work too, they actually want and demand it. ("Why should I study for 3-6 years, and then not do anything with it?") If the woman works too, a portion of the household gets divided up. Most of the time, the men over here have a say and lend a hand in the household (at least, the more progressive ones) and I think that's a good thing.

Regarding the extreme working hours, hasn't this been changing in Japan since the 80's? I've read that legislation has been passed, stating the 40-hour work week to be standard, with heavy restrictions on overwork. It seems the work-related death rate (karoshi) became a catastrophe back then.

To be honest, I am not clear on current standings regarding these issues. A Japanese woman expecting or wanting to do the entire household by herself, might be very unhappy with me, either in the Netherlands or Japan (I'd still like to know about every decision and the reason for making it, even while fully delegating it to some else), and I would be very unhappy with 78 hour work weeks living on an allowance like a kid. That just wouldn't do.

Actually, this issue is the very main reason which keeps me in the Netherlands at the moment (and off of cross-continental dating sites).

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

The fact that a lot of men call their wife "the boss" or "the accountant" or "my banker" or similar terms behind their backs, accompanied by a sneer stamped on their faces says enough, IMHO. Personally, I'd not stand for it and quit the relationship. It's clearly lopsided, or one would call the woman "my partner", "my wife", or "my girlfriend" and be proud of it.

Behind their backs? Are you serious?

Trust me, my husband calls me 'The Boss' all the time--and if you think he means it, you're on drugs. And he certainly doesn't do it "behind my back," I hear him say it on the phone, to his sister, to anyone else...and he's called me a lot of other things, as well, many of them a lot less complimentary, and some far more. In moderately equal and comfortable relationships, this is NORMAL. (And I call him that, as well, mind you, when I'm on the phone with someone, or chatting.)

I recall being appalled when (back in my riding days), I'd hear a woman say she had to ask her husband if she could buy something--a new saddle, new gear, whatever. Now, THAT is horrifying. Calling someone "The Boss" or whatever--that's simply the way that grown-ups relate. Any time that anyone in a relationship has to beg for money from the other, you have an imbalance of power. It sucks, but that's the truth. Nobody ever likes to admit it--saying that whatever they've done is "different," but just as in the "real" world, he who makes the ducats in a relationship has all the power and all the options.

If people want truly egalitarian relationships, then the bottom line is, they both need to have enough money (however attained) to be able to walk out. That's "marital equality." Anyone who claims differently is fooling themselves on one side or the other, particularly in May-December (in either direction) situations with serious income inequalities included.

As far as how your girlfriends have treated you: perhaps the fact that you even have a mindset of "girlfiends" and "girlbosses" (and the fact that you find it sooooooooo reprehensible) should be taken into account when you look at the women (or girls) you've asked out before. And your example discussions? Both women got the exact same result, except woman #2 massaged your ego. She HANDLED you. Women have been HANDLING men since the dawn of time. You want to be handled? I'm sure that there are thousands of Dutch (and other) women that are perfectly happy to do that; trust me, we all know HOW. (We're trained on how to do it from childhood.)

Fortunately, you have billions of women out there to choose from; so you can find one that suits you, I'm quite sure.

Hitch

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Behind their backs? Are you serious?

Trust me, my husband calls me 'The Boss' all the time--and if you think he means it, you're on drugs.

I certainly think they do mean it, mostly because of this point you are raising yourself:

I recall being appalled when (back in my riding days), I'd hear a woman say she had to ask her husband if she could buy something--a new saddle, new gear, whatever. Now, THAT is horrifying.

I've heard numerous men almost begging with their wife to be able to get this or that trivial thing. What's a new 27" computer monitor costing €450, when you've got €30K in the bank? Unaffordable, apparently.

Calling someone "The Boss" or whatever--that's simply the way that grown-ups relate. Any time that anyone in a relationship has to beg for money from the other, you have an imbalance of power.

And THAT is what I am seeing A LOT: men calling their wife "The Boss" or "The Accountant" exactly because of this point.

It sucks, but that's the truth. Nobody ever likes to admit it--saying that whatever they've done is "different," but just as in the "real" world, he who makes the ducats in a relationship has all the power and all the options.

Not where I am, apparently. Over here, it seems that, if you're a woman that can call someone her boyfriend, the woman often seems to be of the opinion that said boyfriend's money and time has now become her property; even if said woman is 10 years younger and barely out of (or even still IN (!)) college. You might not believe it, but I'm not making this up.

It is the number one reason I see for men ending their relationship. The one I'm seeing from the viewpoint of women is because 'he' never listens and never takes anything into consideration.

Who's at fault here? I don't know. What I do know is that the male and female viewpoints about how a relationship should be is drifting apart. The divorce rate also reflects this: 38% percent in 2013, and still rising.

On the other hand, the non-Dutch women I see in a relationship (mostly Belgian, German and a tiny bit of non-Western women over here) just seem to go on and on and on in their relationships. It does make you think.

By the way, I don't pay too much attention to most men

If people want truly egalitarian relationships, then the bottom line is, they both need to have enough money (however attained) to be able to walk out. That's "marital equality."

That is what I prefer if at all possible. Actually, and this might be luck or something, but I've never been involved with someone who's financial position was decidedly better or worse than my own.

As far as how your girlfriends have treated you: perhaps the fact that you even have a mindset of "girlfiends" and "girlbosses" (and the fact that you find it sooooooooo reprehensible) should be taken into account when you look at the women (or girls) you've asked out before. And your example discussions? Both women got the exact same result, except woman #2 massaged your ego. She HANDLED you. Women have been HANDLING men since the dawn of time. You want to be handled? I'm sure that there are thousands of Dutch (and other) women that are perfectly happy to do that; trust me, we all know HOW. (We're trained on how to do it from childhood.)

No, they didn't get the same things done. The Japanese ones got their way decidedly more often and much quicker, just by asking or talking, instead of exploding to pieces if something wasn't to their liking.

If women all know how and have been taught to manipulate and handle men, the Dutch ones I met were surprisingly bad at it

I, for one, don't need to be manipulated or handled or whatever; you can just talk to me and voice your wants or objections, and there will be a good chance that the outcome of that conversation will be satisfactory to both. Screaming, exploding, threatening, and cajoling doesn't ever work.

Let's just say that I have very bad experiences with this regarding (southern) Dutch women. Hell; the German women at work are much more relaxed and easier to get along with than the Dutch ones.