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Old 03-20-2016, 01:27 PM   #16
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I thought this article was interesting. There are some beautiful illustrations. Looking at the comparative sizes between the whale, the whaleboat and the main ship gives me pause. How terrifying and thrilling the job of the whalemen must have been! Imagine the adrenaline rush during the hunt.

How realistic are the vengeful whales of “Moby-Dick” and “In the Heart of the Sea,” really?
http://qz.com/572252/how-realistic-a...he-sea-really/

Here's a link that explains more about the legend of Mocha Dick.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_Dick
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Old 03-20-2016, 01:57 PM   #17
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I was caught up in the action of the chapter that describes "The Attack." When he quoted Chase's reaction to it I was reminded of Father Mapple's sermon about Jonah in an early chapter of Moby Dick that sets up many of the themes to follow and is drawn from Psalm 18. Here's an excerpt to whet your appetite for those who have said they plan to read (or reread) Moby Dick in the near future.

Spoiler:
He paused a little; then kneeling in the pulpit's bows, folded his large brown hands across his chest, uplifted his closed eyes, and offered a pray so deeply devout that he seemed kneeling and praying at the bottom of the sea.

This ended, in prolonged solemn tones, like the continual tolling of a bell in a ship that is foundering at sea in a fog--in such tones he commenced reading the following hymn; but changing his manner towards the concluding stanzas, burst forth with a pealing exultation and joy--

"The ribs and terrors in the whale,
Arched over me a dismal gloom,
While all God's sun-lit waves rolled by,
And lift me deepening down to doom.

I saw the opening maw of hell,
With endless pains and sorrows there;
Which none but they that feel can tell-
Oh, I was plunging to despair.

In black distress, I called my God,
When I could scarce believe him mine,
He bowed his ear to my complaints-
No more the whale did me confine.

With speed he flew to my relief,
As on a radiant dolphin borne;
Awful, yet bright, as lightning shone
The face of my Deliverer God.

My song for ever shall record
That terrible, that joyful hour;
I give the glory to my God,
His all the mercy and the power."


Funny what things leave such a deep impression in your memory even after decades. Twenty-five years ago I played a piece in a symphonic band that each movement was about a character in Moby Dick. The middle movement is "Father Mapple" and the band sings several stanzas from this hymn. After I read this chapter it prompted me to go search for this song. It's "Of Sailors and Whales, Op. 78" composed by William Francis McBeth. I found a great version performed by the US Air Force Band of the West. I enjoyed listening to it while I was reading yesterday. On another aside, the soundtrack for the recent movie In the Heart of the Sea is quite good as well.

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Old 03-25-2016, 02:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bookpossum View Post
I am 75 pages in and have just reached the chapter where the ship is attacked by the whale. I have the feeling that Philbrick had so much information on whaling and life in Nantucket that he had to cram it all in, rather than having, say, one chapter to set the scene and then addressing the main topic. However, what was becoming a bit tedious for me could well be absolutely fascinating for others.

My initial impression is that I would not describe Philbrick's style as literary, but more like journalism. As we discussed a while ago when reading the book on the Dowager Empress, it is often hard to pick how a non-fiction book will turn out until we actually try it. But again, that is only my feeling part way into the book.
I finished the book a few days ago. As a nonfiction book I thought it was a great read. I don't have any particular interest in New England or sailing and so I was pleased at how much I enjoyed it. I was unfamiliar with the tale of the whaleship Essex so I don't feel like it is in the American psyche. However I live in the Western United States and for me it is the survival story of the Donner Party that was mentioned several times in the book which is more familiar. I am surprised at how motivated I feel to reread Moby Dick since I did not like it very much when I read it in school.

I agree with most of your points. I think it was a little more narrative than journalism, especially once it got to the event and survival chapters. However, I too had higher expectations for its literary style based on various reviews and its awards. I thought some of the best imagery was not in the author's own words but in the quotations from his sources. One such example was Melville's description of the Galapagos Islands.

I found a list of criteria for literary nonfiction which I like, and I will post it over the weekend. I agree with some descriptions that group nonfiction into the personal and the journalistic. I think that as a club where we struggle is with nonfiction that falls into the latter category. It seems that with the personal there is more opportunity for a literary style of writing because the author is portraying an experience that they have lived (e.g. travel or memoirs) and so the imagery seems more creative and the story has an added dimension of personal exploration and analysis. However it seems more challenging with the journalistic to capture that right essence (e.g. biographies or history) because the author is relying on third-party sources. For nonfiction it is important to maintain the integrity of the facts presented and it seems that this also adds another challenge to the journalistic side. There have been reports of several personal nonfiction books in recent years that have been found to contain an element of embellishment for effect.
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Old 03-26-2016, 01:08 AM   #19
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Yes, I agree that some of the best parts are the quotations. I think you make a very valid point about the two different types of non-fiction and examples of the personal sort are among some of our top reads - A Tale of Love and Darknessis unforgettable, as is A Time of Gifts.

The list of criteria sounds very useful for us.
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I think you make a very valid point about the two different types of non-fiction and examples of the personal sort are among some of our top reads - A Tale of Love and Darknessis unforgettable, as is A Time of Gifts.
Oz got around the need for absolute fidelity to the facts by calling his memoir an "autobiographical novel" and with PLF, there's the issue of selective or faulty memory (a factor in any memoir, of course), compounded by that lost journal. Both are entirely mesmerizing and for my purposes, certainly true enough. Even third-person history requires interpretation.

For a history book the club read that I think meets the literary bar, I'd suggest John Hemming's The Conquest of the Incas.
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:58 PM   #21
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I read this on Wikipedia but I liked it, especially the wrap-up that I highlighted in red below. The four characteristics suggested are:
  1. Documentable subject matter chosen from the real world as opposed to invented from the writer's mind
  2. Exhaustive research which allows novel perspectives on subjects and credibility of narratives through verifiable references
  3. The scene: revivifying the context of the event in contrast to the typical journalistic style of objective reporting
  4. Fine writing: a literary style of prose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_nonfiction

Quote:
Literary critic Barbara Lounsberry — in her book The Art of Fact — suggests four constitutive characteristics of the genre, the first of which is "Documentable subject matter chosen from the real world as opposed to 'invented' from the writer's mind."[3] By this, she means that the topics and events discussed in the text verifiably exist in the natural world. The second characteristic is "Exhaustive research,"[3] which she claims allows writers "novel perspectives on their subjects" and "also permits them to establish the credibility of their narratives through verifiable references in their texts."[4] The third characteristic that Lounsberry claims is crucial in defining the genre is "The scene". She stresses the importance of describing and revivifying the context of events in contrast to the typical journalistic style of objective reportage.[5] The fourth and final feature she suggests is "Fine writing: a literary prose style".

"Verifiable subject matter and exhaustive research guarantee the nonfiction side of literary nonfiction; the narrative form and structure disclose the writer’s artistry; and finally, its polished language reveals that the goal all along has been literature."
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Old 03-26-2016, 07:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Oz got around the need for absolute fidelity to the facts by calling his memoir an "autobiographical novel" and with PLF, there's the issue of selective or faulty memory (a factor in any memoir, of course), compounded by that lost journal. Both are entirely mesmerizing and for my purposes, certainly true enough. Even third-person history requires interpretation.

For a history book the club read that I think meets the literary bar, I'd suggest John Hemming's The Conquest of the Incas.
Yes, I agree: Hemming's book definitely qualified as literature for me too.
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Old 03-26-2016, 07:42 PM   #23
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"Verifiable subject matter and exhaustive research guarantee the nonfiction side of literary nonfiction; the narrative form and structure disclose the writer’s artistry; and finally, its polished language reveals that the goal all along has been literature."

Yes, that sounds pretty good. I suppose the trick is then to find the books that have that polished language and also the depth of interpretation which we had in the book by John Hemming.

Thanks for the link, Bookworm_Girl.
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:21 PM   #24
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The film of In the Heart of the Sea is interesting too. The cinematography is excellent and the script broadly follows the events in the book. I say "broadly" because there are certainly some significant changes in the story line. Pollard is presented as an inexperienced Captain lacking command authority and prone to serious errors of judgement. In fact, he had captained several whalers. Chase is a more mature and dignified character than was actually the case. The white whale did not follow the survivors; it did smash the ship causing it to sink and then went its own way. The Essex did not catch fire--though on film it makes a glorious cinematic moment.

The story is told as a flashback by the elderly Nickerson to Herman Melville when in fact they never met and Melville relied on Owen Chase's narrative.

Bearing in mind the amount of artistic license employed by Ron Howard, and the fact that events are telescoped to create an intense drama within a two hour time frame, the film is certainly worth seeing.

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Old 04-06-2016, 07:46 AM   #25
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My husband came across this item, and I thought it might be of interest.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/...&et_cid=393886
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:07 AM   #26
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Thanks for the Lounsberry material Bookworm girl. It provides a good basis for literary non-fiction and academic works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by issybird View Post
Oz got around the need for absolute fidelity to the facts by calling his memoir an "autobiographical novel" and with PLF, there's the issue of selective or faulty memory (a factor in any memoir, of course), compounded by that lost journal. Both are entirely mesmerizing and for my purposes, certainly true enough. Even third-person history requires interpretation.

For a history book the club read that I think meets the literary bar, I'd suggest John Hemming's The Conquest of the Incas.
I would agree that Hemming represents what literary academic non-fiction should be like. Another example I would add is Christopher Clark's The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went To War in 1914. The literary element of academic work is important but not always appreciated. The Harvard Classics includes many examples including Darwin's work. The Golden Bough by Frazer is surely a literary work of the highest calibre, as this short passage demonstrates:

"Thus a religious theory was blended with a magical practice. The combination is familiar in history. Indeed, few religions have ever succeeded in wholly extricating themselves from the old trammel of magic. The inconsistency of acting on two opposite principles, however it may vex the soul of the philosopher, rarely troubles the common man; indeed he is seldom even aware of it. His affair is to act, not to analyse the motives of his action. If mankind had always been logical and wise, history would not be a long chronicle of folly and crime."

Misanthropic that may be--but it is beautifully so expressed.

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Old 08-26-2016, 04:06 PM   #27
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I have read Moby-Dick twice, and am now midway in rereading it. As always, it is an enthralling book.

The resolution of Moby-Dick was inspired, as plainly indicated by its author, by the fate of the whaling ship Essex. One supposes that were it not for Moby Dick, the story of the Essex would be a near-forgotten bit of sea lore.

The charm in Moby-Dick does not lie in its cliff-hanging suspense. Does anyone not know how Moby-Dick ends before they ever come to read it? Coming to this book, I was skeptical that it would have much to say. I was pleased to find that I was mistaken. There is a great story here of the ordeal of the survivors, and of how effective leadership or its lack in a crisis can have a huge effect on outcomes for the followers.

That being said, this book lacked a critical literary quality. I did find it very readable, but lacked " its polished language reveals that the goal all along has been literature" (Thanks, Bookworm_Girl)

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Old 08-27-2016, 06:05 PM   #28
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Philbrick has also written a slim volume called Why Read Moby Dick?
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Old 08-27-2016, 07:03 PM   #29
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Thank you so much for the information on Philbrick's Why Read Moby Dick?

Although I don't need to be convinced to read Moby-Dick , I am looking forward to reading Philbrick's take on it.
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