Text + Musical notation?

Kittybriton · 08-21-2012, 04:45 PM

This is something I really need to figure out: can an ePub support a mix of text and musical notation?

The big musical notation programs currently available (Sibelius, Finale and Noteflight) offer export in Music XML. Does anyone know of a way to integrate Music XML with the markup language used in ePub to produce musical notation, i.e. for songbooks? or academic texts which combine text with musical examples?

Aerys · 08-22-2012, 12:15 AM

Sorry but it's impossible to incorporate MUSIC XML since it's not part of the epub specifications.

I think you can use the current workaround for "MATH ML" which is to capture the "notation" as images.

Toxaris · 08-22-2012, 03:19 AM

If you can save it as SVG, it should be possible.

Jellby · 08-22-2012, 03:36 AM

It won't "reflow" though.

mrmikel · 08-22-2012, 08:01 AM

I don't know I'd want music to reflow if there were much of it. PDF might be the best vehicle for what Kitty wants to do. EPUB is great, but it is not suited to everything.

Kittybriton · 08-23-2012, 07:01 AM

Perhaps somebody else will find my current workaround useful: where music has to be incorporated, present it in both abc notation (which is text-only) and QR code (to save copy-and-pasting). There are several online converters which will take the abc notation and hand back a beautiful page of dots.

mrmikel · 08-24-2012, 07:00 AM

Fine for a tablet or phone, but not so useful for an ordinary e-ink reader.

Depends on how important it is to have a wide audience, I guess.

ApK · 08-24-2012, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittybriton

Perhaps somebody else will find my current workaround useful: where music has to be incorporated, present it in both abc notation (which is text-only) and QR code (to save copy-and-pasting). There are several online converters which will take the abc notation and hand back a beautiful page of dots.

I don't follow...you present music in an epub that someone using a reader would need to copy to some online website to make use of? If you you're going to require going online to make use of the music from an ebook, what's the point of having it in the ebook? Just post the music online in the first place.

And how does a QR code help with anything? Are they to take a picture of their ereader page with another device?

Kittybriton · 08-24-2012, 09:01 PM

At the moment, I'm still pretty much feeling my way.

The thinking is that the QR code encapsulates an entire tune, together with any relevant background information like source, or collection notes. The human reader can define their own output format should they wish to obtain a paper copy. Not having any other devices to play with, I can only infer that since my Chi-Pad can grab a screen shot, there must be others similarly capable.

One of the advantages of the electronic book over paper is the ability to incorporate hyperlinks. The book is no longer limited to references which might require a search through several libraries; the internet makes the contents of huge numbers of libraries available. The problem with the internet (until someone fixes it) is link rot (vide my lament below concerning the fate of my blog).

Depending on how you look at it, the music isn't an essential part of the book I'm working on but it does add a dimension for musicians. The music I'm working with right now has been on my blog for the last three years, but the hosting company is changing direction on December 1st, eliminating blogs and related social media, and I'm loath to let the effort go to waste.

Or as one shining wit expressed it: "What frenzy hath of late possess'd the brain? Though few can write, yet fewer can refrain!"

JSWolf · 08-24-2012, 10:34 PM

Not all readers have wifi. So if your eBook needs a reading app to be online, you may be sadly mistaken.

Kittybriton · 08-25-2012, 07:24 AM

Good point. It is too easy to forget, in my enthusiasm, that not everyone can ride the wave at the bleeding edge of new technology.

mrmikel · 08-25-2012, 09:03 AM

I trade WI-fi access for being able to use a book for several weeks on and off, without battery charging, because I only read old books anyway.

There are 4 computers in the house, so I don't need to be connected when I am reading.

JSWolf · 08-25-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittybriton

Good point. It is too easy to forget, in my enthusiasm, that not everyone can ride the wave at the bleeding edge of new technology.

You are not doing well to ingratiate yourself.

08-21-2012, 04:45 PM	#1
Kittybriton Member Posts: 15 Karma: 48138 Join Date: Aug 2012 Device: FBReader, Cool Reader and Aldiko (Android Tablet)	Text + Musical notation? This is something I really need to figure out: can an ePub support a mix of text and musical notation? The big musical notation programs currently available (Sibelius, Finale and Noteflight) offer export in Music XML. Does anyone know of a way to integrate Music XML with the markup language used in ePub to produce musical notation, i.e. for songbooks? or academic texts which combine text with musical examples?

08-24-2012, 09:01 PM	#9
Kittybriton Member Posts: 15 Karma: 48138 Join Date: Aug 2012 Device: FBReader, Cool Reader and Aldiko (Android Tablet)	At the moment, I'm still pretty much feeling my way. The thinking is that the QR code encapsulates an entire tune, together with any relevant background information like source, or collection notes. The human reader can define their own output format should they wish to obtain a paper copy. Not having any other devices to play with, I can only infer that since my Chi-Pad can grab a screen shot, there must be others similarly capable. One of the advantages of the electronic book over paper is the ability to incorporate hyperlinks. The book is no longer limited to references which might require a search through several libraries; the internet makes the contents of huge numbers of libraries available. The problem with the internet (until someone fixes it) is link rot (vide my lament below concerning the fate of my blog). Depending on how you look at it, the music isn't an essential part of the book I'm working on but it does add a dimension for musicians. The music I'm working with right now has been on my blog for the last three years, but the hosting company is changing direction on December 1st, eliminating blogs and related social media, and I'm loath to let the effort go to waste. Or as one shining wit expressed it: "What frenzy hath of late possess'd the brain? Though few can write, yet fewer can refrain!" Last edited by Kittybriton; 08-24-2012 at 09:37 PM. Reason: untangling of knitted thoughts (ever heard of wooly thinking?)

08-24-2012, 10:34 PM	#10
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,866 Karma: 128597114 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Not all readers have wifi. So if your eBook needs a reading app to be online, you may be sadly mistaken. Last edited by JSWolf; 08-25-2012 at 10:11 PM.

08-25-2012, 09:03 AM	#12
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	I trade WI-fi access for being able to use a book for several weeks on and off, without battery charging, because I only read old books anyway. There are 4 computers in the house, so I don't need to be connected when I am reading. Last edited by mrmikel; 08-26-2012 at 09:19 AM.

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08-22-2012, 12:15 AM	#2
Aerys Connoisseur Posts: 51 Karma: 29994 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Manila, Philippines Device: iPad 2 & Nexus 7	Sorry but it's impossible to incorporate MUSIC XML since it's not part of the epub specifications. I think you can use the current workaround for "MATH ML" which is to capture the "notation" as images.

08-22-2012, 03:19 AM	#3
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	If you can save it as SVG, it should be possible.

08-22-2012, 03:36 AM	#4
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,515 Karma: 18512745 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	It won't "reflow" though.

08-22-2012, 08:01 AM	#5
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	I don't know I'd want music to reflow if there were much of it. PDF might be the best vehicle for what Kitty wants to do. EPUB is great, but it is not suited to everything.

08-23-2012, 07:01 AM	#6
Kittybriton Member Posts: 15 Karma: 48138 Join Date: Aug 2012 Device: FBReader, Cool Reader and Aldiko (Android Tablet)	Perhaps somebody else will find my current workaround useful: where music has to be incorporated, present it in both abc notation (which is text-only) and QR code (to save copy-and-pasting). There are several online converters which will take the abc notation and hand back a beautiful page of dots.

08-24-2012, 07:00 AM	#7
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	Fine for a tablet or phone, but not so useful for an ordinary e-ink reader. Depends on how important it is to have a wide audience, I guess.

08-25-2012, 07:24 AM	#11
Kittybriton Member Posts: 15 Karma: 48138 Join Date: Aug 2012 Device: FBReader, Cool Reader and Aldiko (Android Tablet)	Good point. It is too easy to forget, in my enthusiasm, that not everyone can ride the wave at the bleeding edge of new technology.

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