Ebook prices look set to rise (UK)

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, it only applies where books are currently sold by Amazon's Luxumbourg business, which I think is only the national European Amazon sites: UK, FR, DE, etc.

Ahh, okay - so that means, in theory anyway, that those EU customers who have their own Kindle stores (Amazon.de, Amazon.fr etc) but haven't transferred their account from Amazon.com are currently paying more (more VAT) on the same books than the people who have their Kindle account on their local site?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

Ahh, okay - so that means, in theory anyway, that those EU customers who have their own Kindle stores (Amazon.de, Amazon.fr etc) but haven't transferred their account from Amazon.com are currently paying more (more VAT) on the same books than the people who have their Kindle account on their local site?

Yes, exactly. Most ebook prices fell when Luxembourg reduced their ebook VAT rate from (I think it was) 16% to 3% a couple of years ago.

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, exactly. Most ebook prices fell when Luxembourg reduced their ebook VAT rate from (I think it was) 16% to 3% a couple of years ago.

That does make sense, thanks.

What confused me was that before Luxembourg changed their ebook VAT from 15% to 3%, Amazon did charge that Luxembourg 15% VAT also from me, on Amazon.com, although our VAT was already 20% at the time - so I assumed they charged the Luxembourg VAT from all their EU customers also on Amazon.com.

In fact, they continued to charge 15% also for some time after that change (i.e. it never dropped to 3% on Amazon.com but it also wasn't country-specific).

It's only from this year or so (I think) that I noticed prices had gone up for me: again, it's easy to tell with the average self-published title, which went from the earlier usual $5.73 ($2.99 + $2 + 15% VAT) to $5.99 ($2.99 + $2 + 20% VAT) not long ago.

So it sounds like in effect they're just going to equalise the VAT policy for all EU customers regardless of whether they have a local site or not...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

So it sounds like in effect they're just going to equalise the VAT policy for all EU customers regardless of whether they have a local site or not...

This new law is an EU-wide VAT directive, so it should be applied in all 26 (?) EU countries.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's strange. When I buy things from amazon.com they charge me VAT.

Yes, but the VAT is much higher for me than the 3% in Luxemburg.

[HarryT]

No, you misunderstand me. When I said "this will affect everyone in the EU", I meant that the EU VAT Directive, which says that downloads will have to be charged at the buyer's VAT rate, will affect everybody, not that everybody will see higher prices as a result.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, you misunderstand me. When I said "this will affect everyone in the EU", I meant that the EU VAT Directive, which says that downloads will have to be charged at the buyer's VAT rate, will affect everybody, not that everybody will see higher prices as a result.

I buy from amazon.com. I do not understand why the VAT rate in Luxemburg should affect me. And I am in EU.

I thought that for US companies selling to Sweden it was the buyers VAT rate that was payed for ebooks.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by tompe

I buy from amazon.com. I do not understand why the VAT rate in Luxemburg should affect me. And I am in EU.

I thought that for US companies selling to Sweden it was the buyers VAT rate that was payed for ebooks.

Look at the Amazon order email. Does it say
Kindle Edition
Sold by Amazon Media EU S.à r.l. ?

If so that's officially a sale in Luxemburg, 3% VAT

If I (in UK) shifted to Amazon.com the prices quoted for me would be the same converted to US dollars.

I have no idea what the Swedish and Estonian rules are today but from 2015 it will be the VAT rate in the buyer's EU state.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Look at the Amazon order email. Does it say
Kindle Edition
Sold by Amazon Media EU S.à r.l. ?

If so that's officially a sale in Luxemburg, 3% VAT

If I (in UK) shifted to Amazon.com the prices quoted for me would be the same converted to US dollars.

I have no idea what the Swedish and Estonian rules are today but from 2015 it will be the VAT rate in the buyer's EU state.

It is sold by Amazon Digital Service Inc. I thought the rule change was for sales inside EU.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by tompe

It is sold by Amazon Digital Service Inc. I thought the rule change was for sales inside EU.

I thought right:*From 1st January 2015, this Directive also provides that VAT on telecommunications, radio and television broadcasting and electronic services supplied by a supplier established within the Community to non-taxable persons also established within the Community will be charged in the Member State where the customer belongs

[HarryT]

It is for EU sales, yes. It's an EU VAT directive.

[Stephjk]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Look at the Amazon order email. Does it say
Kindle Edition
Sold by Amazon Media EU S.à r.l. ?

If so that's officially a sale in Luxemburg, 3% VAT

If I (in UK) shifted to Amazon.com the prices quoted for me would be the same converted to US dollars.

I have no idea what the Swedish and Estonian rules are today but from 2015 it will be the VAT rate in the buyer's EU state.

Most things I buy from Amazon.co.uk and have shipped to Greece are sold by 'Amazon Media EU S.a.r.l'. The buyers VAT rate is always applied to these purchases, including books - 23% for me!

[carpetmojo]

As mud is clear, so is this ....

However ....... let me see now ...... mmmm..... interesting ....



I can see that there may well be the outside chance that a business I know, will see increased need for books, both for reference and the furtherance of the well-being of the workforce .


Oh, and I can also see it would be far more efficient for said books to be in digital form, in order to maintain maximum free space for stock, work areas, and customer's comfort.

I also believe it would be of great advantage to have dedicated ereaders conveniently available to customers and the workforce, for purely business purposes, of course .......



And do you know, I do believe there may be the possibility that said enterprise is VAT registered ... not sure, mind ....

[ One appreciates it's not quite up there with moving tax headquarters to Ireland/Luxembourg/The Cayman Islands, but one does what one can ... ]

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Stephjk

Most things I buy from Amazon.co.uk and have shipped to Greece are sold by 'Amazon Media EU S.a.r.l'. The buyers VAT rate is always applied to these purchases, including books - 23% for me!

Yes, the current 3% rate only applies to digital downloads, such as ebooks and MP3s. Physical goods are already charged at the buyer's VAT rate.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It is for EU sales, yes. It's an EU VAT directive.

EU VAT directives also can say what outside companies should pay when selling to a customer in EU.

So for the purpose of buying Kindle books in Sweden the rule change 2015-01-01 will not have any effect at all. Unless I assume if Amazon starts a Swedish shop.