Irate kindlers 1star carpet bomb Michael Connelly's new book - Page 21

RockdaMan · 04-20-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You need a mechanism to give something up?

Yes, if they have one starred it, are you suggesting that they un one star it?

DiapDealer · 04-20-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Yes, if they have one starred it, are you suggesting that they un one star it?

That would be nice, but I certainly don't expect that kind of conscientious behavior.

OtterBooks · 04-21-2011, 04:20 AM

Digital goods sure have made the concept of value confusing. How much does it cost to download a purchased version of Adobe CS5? Like $2,000 or something? Sure it's the result of a lot of time and skilled labor, but so is the 900 pages of Lonesome Dove, and that's $12.99. I don't even know what to think anymore.

Penforhire · 04-21-2011, 11:07 AM

It isn't quite that equivalent. Try comparing how many people Adobe employed for years to create the whole CS5 suite versus 900 pages from an author.

How many man-years did Lonesome Dove require to write? I'll be generous and say three man-years.

Adobe has over 9,000 employees in total (from their Yahoo finance profile). I don't know for sure but I imagine about one third of the company works on that suite (versus Flash, Acrobat, and a couple of other odd projects). I'll be conservative and call the effort to release CS5 3,000 man-years (much of the CS5 suite takes more than 12 months between cycles).

So you're comparing 3 to 3000. That's two orders of magnitude and it just so happens to nearly match with the price difference you noted ($12.99 to $2K). Also a large proportion of CS5 users qualify for upgrade pricing.

In reality, prices in unregulated markets are always what the market will bear. But the example you cited just happens to have a rule-of-thumb answer as well.

HansTWN · 04-21-2011, 10:49 PM

Additionally CS5 is a money making tool, while the book is just for entertainment. Also consider the number of units Adobe expects to be sold after investing so many man hours. Not to mention the overhead.

OtterBooks · 04-22-2011, 02:26 AM

True enough. Personally, I would rather have a copy of Lonesome Dove, and I didn't even like it that much.

Penforhire · 04-22-2011, 11:59 AM

Well, an author does expect to be paid for their efforts. We have raging discussions about that constantly here. It certainly affects writers, to compare what they expect to earn in a "real job" (lol) versus following their drive to write. The average Adobe employee probably does have more income, and at a steadier rate, than the average published author.

OTOH, I suspect Larry McMurty makes considerably more than just about anyone below the executive level at Adobe, having written books that were made into successful movies. Of course the dude is in his 70's and worked his @ss off writing for many years!

OtterBooks · 04-22-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmw

It could even be as I suggested earlier: all these 1-star reviews have drawn attention to the book, so it sells more and those that actually do like it feel obliged to offer their review. I wondered if Amazon may be leaving things as they because it was a benefit to them. That's one of the difficulties of protests made from a position of ignorance, you never quite know when your protests are having the opposite effect to the one you wanted.

I've realized that when I am looking through books on Amazon, a huge review-count will catch my eye as much or more than the star average.

1-star price protesters crank up the review numbers without saying anything bad about the novel itself, possibly drawing attention to the book and the positive content reviews, while maybe even drowning out negative content reviews. The publisher could be loving this.

Or not. Either way, the ebook is #1 on NYT last I checked.

Barty · 04-22-2011, 12:55 PM

I think this horse is dead, gentlemen. It is no more, it is an ex horse.

I'm going to call it. TOD 0955 PDT.

steve g · 04-22-2011, 07:17 PM

It has been too long since I visited this site and I intend to be far more regular about my posts and ideas. That said, I am struck by the same discussion I read 2 years ago, the cost of ebooks versus print. I am not in the publishing industry and would ask someone who is truly knowledgeable to break down the cost of a $30 fiction book. Assume it is sold at list. In dollar amount how much to the print cost, distribution, publicity, royalties and other costs I don't know about. I recognize that most books are never sold at list, but this should give a starting point for good discussion.

elcreative · 04-22-2011, 07:33 PM

Indeed it has been a while... such breakdowns have been posted in this and other threads already and spawned much discussion... though I can't comment on whether it was good as that's subjective...

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve g

It has been too long since I visited this site and I intend to be far more regular about my posts and ideas. That said, I am struck by the same discussion I read 2 years ago, the cost of ebooks versus print. I am not in the publishing industry and would ask someone who is truly knowledgeable to break down the cost of a $30 fiction book. Assume it is sold at list. In dollar amount how much to the print cost, distribution, publicity, royalties and other costs I don't know about. I recognize that most books are never sold at list, but this should give a starting point for good discussion.

GA Russell · 04-22-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve g

I recognize that most books are never sold at list...

Certainly best sellers are typically heavily discounted, but I think that a trip to Borders and B&N will show that most books in b&m stores are indeed sold at list.

I think that's a big reason fewer people are shopping in the b&m stores. The books are just too darn expensive.

04-22-2011, 07:17 PM	#310
steve g Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: sony 505	factors in the cost It has been too long since I visited this site and I intend to be far more regular about my posts and ideas. That said, I am struck by the same discussion I read 2 years ago, the cost of ebooks versus print. I am not in the publishing industry and would ask someone who is truly knowledgeable to break down the cost of a $30 fiction book. Assume it is sold at list. In dollar amount how much to the print cost, distribution, publicity, royalties and other costs I don't know about. I recognize that most books are never sold at list, but this should give a starting point for good discussion.

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04-21-2011, 04:20 AM	#303
OtterBooks Wizard Posts: 1,262 Karma: 2979086 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kindle 4, iPad Mini/Retina	Digital goods sure have made the concept of value confusing. How much does it cost to download a purchased version of Adobe CS5? Like $2,000 or something? Sure it's the result of a lot of time and skilled labor, but so is the 900 pages of Lonesome Dove, and that's $12.99. I don't even know what to think anymore.

04-21-2011, 11:07 AM	#304
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	It isn't quite that equivalent. Try comparing how many people Adobe employed for years to create the whole CS5 suite versus 900 pages from an author. How many man-years did Lonesome Dove require to write? I'll be generous and say three man-years. Adobe has over 9,000 employees in total (from their Yahoo finance profile). I don't know for sure but I imagine about one third of the company works on that suite (versus Flash, Acrobat, and a couple of other odd projects). I'll be conservative and call the effort to release CS5 3,000 man-years (much of the CS5 suite takes more than 12 months between cycles). So you're comparing 3 to 3000. That's two orders of magnitude and it just so happens to nearly match with the price difference you noted ($12.99 to $2K). Also a large proportion of CS5 users qualify for upgrade pricing. In reality, prices in unregulated markets are always what the market will bear. But the example you cited just happens to have a rule-of-thumb answer as well.

04-21-2011, 10:49 PM	#305
HansTWN Wizard Posts: 4,538 Karma: 264065402 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Taiwan Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD	Additionally CS5 is a money making tool, while the book is just for entertainment. Also consider the number of units Adobe expects to be sold after investing so many man hours. Not to mention the overhead.

04-22-2011, 02:26 AM	#306
OtterBooks Wizard Posts: 1,262 Karma: 2979086 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kindle 4, iPad Mini/Retina	True enough. Personally, I would rather have a copy of Lonesome Dove, and I didn't even like it that much.

04-22-2011, 11:59 AM	#307
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	Well, an author does expect to be paid for their efforts. We have raging discussions about that constantly here. It certainly affects writers, to compare what they expect to earn in a "real job" (lol) versus following their drive to write. The average Adobe employee probably does have more income, and at a steadier rate, than the average published author. OTOH, I suspect Larry McMurty makes considerably more than just about anyone below the executive level at Adobe, having written books that were made into successful movies. Of course the dude is in his 70's and worked his @ss off writing for many years!

04-22-2011, 12:55 PM	#309
Barty doofus Posts: 2,521 Karma: 13088847 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	I think this horse is dead, gentlemen. It is no more, it is an ex horse. I'm going to call it. TOD 0955 PDT.