Internet Explorer 7 will have tabs - will Firefox users switch back?

Colin Dunstan · 03-10-2005, 10:14 AM

Paul Thurrott reveals that Internet Explorer 7 will have the much loved tabs feature. Since it appears that the Firefox developer team is in some kind of trouble right now (only one developer is still active), I wonder if this is the chance for Microsoft to fight back.

sUnShInE · 03-10-2005, 09:03 PM

Does more tabs equal more ways to get spyware?

I recently started using the Giant/M$ antispyware beta, and I have to say -- it's really great. I can't believe the number of keys it finds on my system. But then again, it strikes me as ironic that I usually have a larger accumulation of spyware on my machine when I'm forced to use IE (ie, lack of FF plug-ins or low stability for apps like Acrobat, etc). Ahhh, the trade-off....

Then of course there's the big conspiracy question about whether those keys are planted.

hacker · 03-11-2005, 01:40 AM

I don't think users will switch back, for quite a few reasons:

The sheer number of secure extensions available for Firefox and Mozilla blows away anything Microsoft could even dream to provide for MSIE.
Firefox is significantly more secure with form data, cookies, passwords (Mozilla is even moreso), and offers a LOT more granular control over the overall browsing experience.
Themes, themes, themes. Windows users are used to eye-candy.
Bookmarks can be browsed like any other webpage, because, well, it is a webpage. Favorites with MSIE is just a mess, and it doesn't scale well at all.
With the new FF1.1 and Mozilla currently sitting in CVS, you can have per-site CSS overrides, which I've been asking for, for over 2 years now.
Websites look better in Firefox, because they render properly, including those which trigger quirks mode. MSIE still has some bass-ackwards interpretation of the standards, and as usual for Microsoft, gets them wrong anyway.
Migrating from Firefox on Windows, to Firefox on OSX or Linux or FreeBSD, is a 0-height learning curve. The same bookmarks exist and will continue to work. The interface, extensions, and other components are the same. You don't have to "relearn" how to use the browser, or configure it differently, when you move from platform to platform.
Firefox doesn't use ActiveX, so the number of possible entry points for inserting spyware and malware is significantly reduced (reducing support calls and costs, as well)
And last-but-not-least, you get the full source code, so you can see exactly what the browser is doing. No guesswork needed.

But, only the market will decide. Microsoft has lost the browser war, despite their dominance with it being the only icon-by-default on their OS.

Francesco · 03-11-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sUnShInE

Does more tabs equal more ways to get spyware?

I recently started using the Giant/M$ antispyware beta, and I have to say -- it's really great. I can't believe the number of keys it finds on my system. But then again, it strikes me as ironic that I usually have a larger accumulation of spyware on my machine when I'm forced to use IE (ie, lack of FF plug-ins or low stability for apps like Acrobat, etc). Ahhh, the trade-off....

Then of course there's the big conspiracy question about whether those keys are planted.

Sunshine, here are some thoughts about MS antispyware:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/02/17.html
Also, before MS offered this program, I used (and still do) Ad-Aware. Well, as you point out, every time I have to use IE I get a lot of spyware, mainly in the form of tracking cookies, which are not being cleared by MS anti-spyware! Only AdAware detects them.
Btw, Adaware is free for personal use:
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/software/adaware/

sUnShInE · 03-11-2005, 06:02 PM

Yea, before Giant, I was using AA6. I'm really surprised at the number of *keys* that Giant is able to find that AA doesn't.

Thanks for the tips

Francesco · 03-11-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sUnShInE

I'm really surprised at the number of *keys* that Giant is able to find that AA doesn't.

I've heard about that, am I the only one experiencing the opposite?
(hey, we're hijacking the thread, LOL!)

sUnShInE · 03-12-2005, 09:46 AM

Oh yea, wasn't this about new IE tab browsing? hehe

The point is still valid though: IE sucks.

Regardless, I have FF at home and use Netscape 7.2 at work. I've found FF fairly unstable, but it may be because I have a (color: red) 1.6Ghz at home. My work machine is a 3.8Ghz, and I tried the new Netscape8 beta, but it is horrendous. I couldn't even get past the splash screen.

Francesco · 03-12-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sUnShInE

I've found FF fairly unstable...

Is that so? I'm totally satisfied with it. OTO, I'm giving Mozilla Thunderbird a try, but I'm seriously thinking going back to Outlook.

And about tabs in IE7, I think this had to be totally expected. After all, it was FF success what prompted MS to deliver IE7 earlier.

Chaos · 03-12-2005, 06:18 PM

I think people switch to Firefox not because of the tabs, but because of the speed, security, and the fact that it's becoming more popular.

Remember, in relation to computers, many people are sheep.

Personally, I only use IE to either download Firefox (

) or if I'm on a system without anything else.

doctorow · 03-16-2005, 08:38 AM

Microsoft Watch has some more details on what to expect with Microsoft's impending release of Internet Explorer 7.0:

Sources say that IE 7.0 - which is code-named "Rincon," they hear - will be a tabbed browser.

IE 7.0 will feature international domain name (IDN) support; transparent Portable Network Graphics (PNG) support, which will allow for the display of overlayed images in the browser; and new functionality that will simplify printing from inside IE 7.0, partner sources said. The new browser also will likely include a built-in news aggregator.

03-10-2005, 10:14 AM	#1
Colin Dunstan Is papyrophobic! Posts: 1,926 Karma: 1009999 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Device: Dell Axim	Internet Explorer 7 will have tabs - will Firefox users switch back? Paul Thurrott reveals that Internet Explorer 7 will have the much loved tabs feature. Since it appears that the Firefox developer team is in some kind of trouble right now (only one developer is still active), I wonder if this is the chance for Microsoft to fight back.

03-11-2005, 01:40 AM	#3
hacker Technology Mercenary Posts: 617 Karma: 2561 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: East Lyme, CT Device: Direct Neural Implant	I don't think users will switch back, for quite a few reasons: The sheer number of secure extensions available for Firefox and Mozilla blows away anything Microsoft could even dream to provide for MSIE. Firefox is significantly more secure with form data, cookies, passwords (Mozilla is even moreso), and offers a LOT more granular control over the overall browsing experience. Themes, themes, themes. Windows users are used to eye-candy. Bookmarks can be browsed like any other webpage, because, well, it is a webpage. Favorites with MSIE is just a mess, and it doesn't scale well at all. With the new FF1.1 and Mozilla currently sitting in CVS, you can have per-site CSS overrides, which I've been asking for, for over 2 years now. Websites look better in Firefox, because they render properly, including those which trigger quirks mode. MSIE still has some bass-ackwards interpretation of the standards, and as usual for Microsoft, gets them wrong anyway. Migrating from Firefox on Windows, to Firefox on OSX or Linux or FreeBSD, is a 0-height learning curve. The same bookmarks exist and will continue to work. The interface, extensions, and other components are the same. You don't have to "relearn" how to use the browser, or configure it differently, when you move from platform to platform. Firefox doesn't use ActiveX, so the number of possible entry points for inserting spyware and malware is significantly reduced (reducing support calls and costs, as well) And last-but-not-least, you get the full source code, so you can see exactly what the browser is doing. No guesswork needed. But, only the market will decide. Microsoft has lost the browser war, despite their dominance with it being the only icon-by-default on their OS.

03-12-2005, 06:18 PM	#9
Chaos Evangelist Posts: 418 Karma: 281 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Device: Assorted older devices	I think people switch to Firefox not because of the tabs, but because of the speed, security, and the fact that it's becoming more popular. Remember, in relation to computers, many people are sheep. Personally, I only use IE to either download Firefox () or if I'm on a system without anything else.

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03-10-2005, 09:03 PM	#2
sUnShInE Drama Queen Posts: 784 Karma: 11712 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: United States Device: Palm Tungsten T\|T3	Does more tabs equal more ways to get spyware? I recently started using the Giant/M$ antispyware beta, and I have to say -- it's really great. I can't believe the number of keys it finds on my system. But then again, it strikes me as ironic that I usually have a larger accumulation of spyware on my machine when I'm forced to use IE (ie, lack of FF plug-ins or low stability for apps like Acrobat, etc). Ahhh, the trade-off.... Then of course there's the big conspiracy question about whether those keys are planted.

03-11-2005, 06:02 PM	#5
sUnShInE Drama Queen Posts: 784 Karma: 11712 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: United States Device: Palm Tungsten T\|T3	Yea, before Giant, I was using AA6. I'm really surprised at the number of keys that Giant is able to find that AA doesn't. Thanks for the tips

03-12-2005, 09:46 AM	#7
sUnShInE Drama Queen Posts: 784 Karma: 11712 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: United States Device: Palm Tungsten T\|T3	Oh yea, wasn't this about new IE tab browsing? hehe The point is still valid though: IE sucks. Regardless, I have FF at home and use Netscape 7.2 at work. I've found FF fairly unstable, but it may be because I have a (color: red) 1.6Ghz at home. My work machine is a 3.8Ghz, and I tried the new Netscape8 beta, but it is horrendous. I couldn't even get past the splash screen.

03-16-2005, 08:38 AM	#10
doctorow Guru Posts: 914 Karma: 3410461 Join Date: May 2004 Device: Kindle Touch	Microsoft Watch has some more details on what to expect with Microsoft's impending release of Internet Explorer 7.0: Sources say that IE 7.0 - which is code-named "Rincon," they hear - will be a tabbed browser. IE 7.0 will feature international domain name (IDN) support; transparent Portable Network Graphics (PNG) support, which will allow for the display of overlayed images in the browser; and new functionality that will simplify printing from inside IE 7.0, partner sources said. The new browser also will likely include a built-in news aggregator.

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