Sharp looking to push oddball XMDF format on new LCD readers - Page 2

charleski · 09-10-2010, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miklos.klaar

Here is a comparison of the major ones with the formats - notice the predominance of XMDF?

http://www.bunshunplaza.com/list_pc/index_pda.html

I noticed that DotBook is used by even more retailers. That chart doesn't exactly prove your point.

XMDF may be based on xml, but that's about as relevant as saying that humans are based on DNA, it doesn't mean that a hamster can drive a car. The standard's contents page (which is as close as you can get to finding out about it without paying) is littered with special-use attributes rather than defining a generalised and flexible framework.

It's good that Japanese publishers are looking to harmonise their fractured infrastructure. It's bad that their hubris dictates that they reinvent the wheel and waste their energies on cobbling together yet another incompatible format to inflict upon the world. Sharp's IEC process is little more than a landgrab that's too little and too late.

murraypaul · 09-10-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleski

It's good that Japanese publishers are looking to harmonise their fractured infrastructure. It's bad that their hubris dictates that they reinvent the wheel and waste their energies on cobbling together yet another incompatible format to inflict upon the world. Sharp's IEC process is little more than a landgrab that's too little and too late.

They aren't cobbling together anything, the format has been around for years.
Does what you are saying apply just as much to Amazon rolling out its format to other countries? It is a format that is very widely used in its home country, but not outside.
The hubris seems to be in people assuming that anything invented elsewhere, and that they haven't heard of, must be new and unnecessary.
The current western formats do not support the text-layout issues that occur with the Japanese language, so Japanese developers (many years ago) developed formats that did.

miklos.klaar · 09-10-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

The hubris seems to be in people assuming that anything invented elsewhere, and that they haven't heard of, must be new and unnecessary.

Hubris, indeed. Arrogance maybe? Does the OP acknowledge any country or language other then their own?

My final thoughts on this:

XMDF and it's predecessor MDF has been around since 1985 - this is over 10 years before OEB (now EPUB) was a twinkle in the IDPF's eye.

It's already been decided that XMDF is the format in Japan for the digital publishing process. The Japanese government has approved XMDF, the publishers have approved XMDF, the EPAJ has also agreed - it's done.

EPUB will never be the standard in Japan, get over it.

Brainiac 5 · 09-17-2010, 10:22 PM

Since we seem to have some XMDF-savvy people here, I have a question (I apologize in advance for straying off the topic of the thread). Does anyone know of a device or program for reading XMDF that lets you easily look up words from the text in the dictionary? (I know some of Sharp's electronic dictionaries have an XMDF reader; do those let you easily look up a word from the text and then get back to where you were reading...?)

miklos.klaar · 09-17-2010, 11:21 PM

Most of the XMDF readers will do exactly what you're asking.

(1) The newer Sharp dictionaries i've seen do this. Specifically the Brain and Papyrus series. Example of the XMDF support for the newest models: http://www.sharp.co.jp/edictionary/f...html#feature14

(2) Sharp also makes two versions of the Netwalker, a small form factor Linux palmtop. I have the new tablet and it comes with the XMDF reader, about 30 books and a lot of dictionaries - very nice. Details: http://www.sharp.co.jp/netwalker/

Good stuff about the book reading feature: http://www.sharp.co.jp/netwalker/pct...ook/index.html

(3) Most of the software installable readers that are available for XMDF have some kind of copy function. The key to this is having the dictionaries you're interested in. If you don't mind reading on the computer both Windows and OS X have very nice commercial dictionary support. OS X has some very good Japanese dictionaries built into the OS. Unfortunately no XMDF for Macs yet.　http://books.spacetown.ne.jp/sst/men...ead/kishu.html

(4) Sharp announced the new readers, but details surrounding their capabilities are sparse.

(5) You will be able to get a Zaurus MI-DC25 on Yahoo Auction with the book reader and dictionaries inside. I still have mine. http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/mie25dc/index.html

(6) Many cellphones work. Including many from Docomo and Softbank but they are for the Japanese market - depending on the model will not work outside of Japan.

(7) Different Windows Mobile units from Sharp and HTC units from e-mobile also have reader support and good dictionaries.

http://www.sharp.co.jp/em/s01sh/
http://www.sharp.co.jp/d4/

And WinMo and PocketPC in general are supported.

(8) here is a 2chan thread about the format: http://logsoku.com/thread/toki.2ch.n...lo/1231321170/

If you have specific questions about any of these please feel free to ask. I've probably owned or used most of the XMDF related devices available in the last 5-6 years. My current favorite is the Netwalker. However, the dictionaries can't be beat for instant on and instant word lookup. The screens are the trade-off.

Late addition: Somewhat dated model capability chart by type: http://books.spacetown.ne.jp/sst/ven...lchart.asp#mav

igorsk · 11-25-2010, 06:38 PM

Sony will be using XMDF in the Japanese models.

Ken Maltby · 11-25-2010, 06:56 PM

So maybe I'm a little dense, but how would the ereader hardware be locked into a
certain format for text/graphic content display? I mean isn't this just a mater of
the software embedded into the firmware? A version for the Japanese market might
well support this XMDF while for the US/EU English speaking market include the Adobe
Reader or something like it.

Luck;
Ken

technogeekery · 12-07-2010, 03:10 AM

Looks like the Sony will launch on 10 Dec with the PRS650/650 models and 20000 titles in their store. These models will support XMDF and epub/pdf. Presume most if not all of their titles will be XMDF, and they don't seem to be linking to Sony reader store in USA at all, which is a pity for us non-Japanese reading e-book owners in Japan (all 4 of us lol).

mbagsh55 · 12-08-2010, 01:18 AM

I agree it is a pity, and I wonder the reasons behind this choice.

However the specification are clear for the Sony Readers on-sale in Japan: XMDF is the only format with DRM that is supported, which logically means it is the only format Sony is going to sell for their Readers here.

technogeekery · 12-10-2010, 01:43 AM

I'm going to wander down to yamada Denki tomorrow and check out the PRS650 and see if it really is that much less reflective than my PRS700. I'd really like to get one for my wife, but all my books are epub, and if I can't share them across readers (most are DRM encrypted) then I can't buy one here (grrr frustrating!)

09-17-2010, 11:21 PM	#20
miklos.klaar Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 50 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: iRex Iliad, Entourage eDGe, Sharp Netwalker PC-T1	Most of the XMDF readers will do exactly what you're asking. (1) The newer Sharp dictionaries i've seen do this. Specifically the Brain and Papyrus series. Example of the XMDF support for the newest models: http://www.sharp.co.jp/edictionary/f...html#feature14 (2) Sharp also makes two versions of the Netwalker, a small form factor Linux palmtop. I have the new tablet and it comes with the XMDF reader, about 30 books and a lot of dictionaries - very nice. Details: http://www.sharp.co.jp/netwalker/ Good stuff about the book reading feature: http://www.sharp.co.jp/netwalker/pct...ook/index.html (3) Most of the software installable readers that are available for XMDF have some kind of copy function. The key to this is having the dictionaries you're interested in. If you don't mind reading on the computer both Windows and OS X have very nice commercial dictionary support. OS X has some very good Japanese dictionaries built into the OS. Unfortunately no XMDF for Macs yet.　http://books.spacetown.ne.jp/sst/men...ead/kishu.html (4) Sharp announced the new readers, but details surrounding their capabilities are sparse. (5) You will be able to get a Zaurus MI-DC25 on Yahoo Auction with the book reader and dictionaries inside. I still have mine. http://www.sharp.co.jp/products/mie25dc/index.html (6) Many cellphones work. Including many from Docomo and Softbank but they are for the Japanese market - depending on the model will not work outside of Japan. (7) Different Windows Mobile units from Sharp and HTC units from e-mobile also have reader support and good dictionaries. http://www.sharp.co.jp/em/s01sh/ http://www.sharp.co.jp/d4/ And WinMo and PocketPC in general are supported. (8) here is a 2chan thread about the format: http://logsoku.com/thread/toki.2ch.n...lo/1231321170/ If you have specific questions about any of these please feel free to ask. I've probably owned or used most of the XMDF related devices available in the last 5-6 years. My current favorite is the Netwalker. However, the dictionaries can't be beat for instant on and instant word lookup. The screens are the trade-off. Late addition: Somewhat dated model capability chart by type: http://books.spacetown.ne.jp/sst/ven...lchart.asp#mav Last edited by miklos.klaar; 09-17-2010 at 11:32 PM.

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09-17-2010, 10:22 PM	#19
Brainiac 5 Member Posts: 21 Karma: 20 Join Date: May 2007 Device: Sony Portable Reader	Since we seem to have some XMDF-savvy people here, I have a question (I apologize in advance for straying off the topic of the thread). Does anyone know of a device or program for reading XMDF that lets you easily look up words from the text in the dictionary? (I know some of Sharp's electronic dictionaries have an XMDF reader; do those let you easily look up a word from the text and then get back to where you were reading...?)

11-25-2010, 06:38 PM	#21
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Sony will be using XMDF in the Japanese models.

11-25-2010, 06:56 PM	#22
Ken Maltby Wizard Posts: 4,465 Karma: 6900052 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Heart of Texas Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,	So maybe I'm a little dense, but how would the ereader hardware be locked into a certain format for text/graphic content display? I mean isn't this just a mater of the software embedded into the firmware? A version for the Japanese market might well support this XMDF while for the US/EU English speaking market include the Adobe Reader or something like it. Luck; Ken

12-07-2010, 03:10 AM	#23
technogeekery Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: Sony PRS-700	Looks like the Sony will launch on 10 Dec with the PRS650/650 models and 20000 titles in their store. These models will support XMDF and epub/pdf. Presume most if not all of their titles will be XMDF, and they don't seem to be linking to Sony reader store in USA at all, which is a pity for us non-Japanese reading e-book owners in Japan (all 4 of us lol).

12-08-2010, 01:18 AM	#24
mbagsh55 Enthusiast Posts: 46 Karma: 196 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kanagawa, Japan Device: Sony PRS-700/Zaurus SL-3100	I agree it is a pity, and I wonder the reasons behind this choice. However the specification are clear for the Sony Readers on-sale in Japan: XMDF is the only format with DRM that is supported, which logically means it is the only format Sony is going to sell for their Readers here.

12-10-2010, 01:43 AM	#25
technogeekery Junior Member Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: Sony PRS-700	I'm going to wander down to yamada Denki tomorrow and check out the PRS650 and see if it really is that much less reflective than my PRS700. I'd really like to get one for my wife, but all my books are epub, and if I can't share them across readers (most are DRM encrypted) then I can't buy one here (grrr frustrating!)

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