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Old 06-01-2008, 12:01 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
...it would seem my quest has arrived at its profoundly frustrating end, and no doubt legally, since the doubt remains complete, i should abstain from creating an ebook and uploading it here. ...


The Hungarian Electronic Library page for 'Please Sir!' at:
http://mek.oszk.hu/00700/00770/index.phtml
has an 'Informacio' button that provides an Email link for more information and help - just wondering if it might be worth dropping them a line.

(I may be out of date -apologies if you've already tried.)
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:14 PM   #32
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thanks Sparrow, that's very nice of you, but to be honest i'm fed up with the whole thing. i already have contacted a random homonym of the translator, the publisher, and the Hungarian copyright agency, and none of them has been able to help me.

given that the book in question is *definitely* in the public domain (Karinthy died in 1938), and the translation is quite *probably* in the public domain (since it was published in 1925), and even if it's not no-one knows anything about this translator, how to find him, whether or not he's alive, or when he died, AND that the text is actually already freely available online (though not in ebook form), but that nonetheless i can't compile it into ebook form and upload it here (with absolutely no commercial motivation), this whole mess seems completely absurd, worthy of a Kafka story, and leaves me feeling incredibly irritated at the ridiculous state of copyright law. and i beleive i *will* make an ebook of the text to read offline, for my own personal use, even though i cannot share it here.

i should mention, for the record, that everyone i corresponded with in Hungary has been unfailingly kind and helpful (to the best of their abilities, anyway).
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:02 PM   #33
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Yes, resolving copyright issues would give Sisyphus nightmares.

I've taken the liberty of emailing the Hungarian Electronic Library to see if they can clarify the situation.

I'll pass on what I hear back (if I hear back)).
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Old 06-01-2008, 05:08 PM   #34
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thank you so much Sparrow ! i probably should have done that myself, but i am feeling very cranky and discouraged today and couldn't dredge up the motivation. i sincerely appreciate your efforts. have some karma for that and a hug too.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:23 AM   #35
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well well well, it looks like this story has not quite come to an end after all, since today i received another mail from Corvina :

Quote:
Dear A.,

Thank you for your inquiry re. Frigyes Karinthy’s novel, Please, Sir!
We have not responded earlier because Corvina is
Planning to republish the work, but has not yet come to a final
decision. It should be made soon, at which time I will
get back to you without delay.

All best,
Judith Szollosy
Senior Editor
Corvina
naturally i leapt immediately into the breach, here is my reply :

Quote:
Dear Judith,
I sincerely appreciate your communication. Please do keep me informed. May I ask most particularly, whether you have plans to publish a digital edition (e-book) of this work ? Allow me to most enthusiastically encourage you to do so ; I for one would love to have all of Karinthy's works in digital format (thus indeed my original inquiry, concerning the copyright status of the translation of Please, Sir, which is available online in digital format but not as an ebook which can be read on a dedicated device such as the Bookeen Cybook Gen3 or Sony Reader for example), and I sincerely hope that you will make these available in the very near future. I would be very interested to know your plans on this subject.

If you are interested in digital publishing, may I also invite you to take a look at the site https://www.mobileread.com, where you can get a lot of information about the current state of digital publishing, dedicated devices, and dialogue with a very friendly, knowledgeable and passionate community on every aspect of these questions, including the hoped-for evolution of the industry and emerging best practices.

Thank you again for your kind replies,
Best wishes,
A K
further updates as events warrant, of course...
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:05 AM   #36
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Karinthy's books are available FREE in electronic format in Hungary.
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/hu...gyar/karinthy/

You should not worry about the copyright, except maybe for the translation.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:44 PM   #37
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A translation (even of a work that's in the public domain) has its own copyright - ie the translation doesn't enter the public domain until 70/50 years after the death of the translator.
Not necessarily.
It depends on what entity owns the IP of the translation just like it depends on who owns the IP of the original work.

Example: I used to work for a game company and wrote under contract. The IP is copyright by the company I worked for and thus follows different laws (95 years from original publication date if after a certain date, IIRC). So even if I were to die tomorrow a work I wrote 2 years ago would not necessarily be public domain in 2084 and even if I lived until 2083 (fat chance ) the work would probably go PD in 2101 IF I have the copyright/IP stuff correct as it would follow the corporate date of creation, and nothing to do with my life.

Just saying. Copyright and IP are complex issues and thus the province of lawyers (who have insurance) rather than a mere mortal like myself.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:49 PM   #38
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Karinthy's books are available FREE in electronic format in Hungary.
http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/hu...gyar/karinthy/

You should not worry about the copyright, except maybe for the translation.
thank you, BlackVoid, but the original question was in fact about the translation, since i (alas) cannot read hungarian.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:25 PM   #39
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Zelda, FARKAS István basically translates to "Stephen Wolf". It is not as common as "John Smith" but common enough, as you found out.

While the Hungarian Electronic Library is great for finding materials for personal use, I find their copyright statement less than enlightened: http://mek.oszk.hu/html/allando/copyright.htm

Despite a lot of their content being in the public domain, they presume to restrict use of all their materials in arbitrary ways. A pity. Although, in fairness, they do also have many still in copyright works for free, which makes up for some of their tyranny.

Given the English translation's supposed 1968 publication date ( http://mek.oszk.hu/00700/00770/cedula.html ) the particular FARKAS István may well be alive. I would not bet on the material being in the public domain.

Are you interested in Hungarian literature in general? I myself am Hungarian, but with an English-speaking wife, so I have appreciation for both originals and translations.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:37 PM   #40
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Zelda, FARKAS István basically translates to "Stephen Wolf". It is not as common as "John Smith" but common enough, as you found out.

While the Hungarian Electronic Library is great for finding materials for personal use, I find their copyright statement less than enlightened: http://mek.oszk.hu/html/allando/copyright.htm

Despite a lot of their content being in the public domain, they presume to restrict use of all their materials in arbitrary ways. A pity. Although, in fairness, they do also have many still in copyright works for free, which makes up for some of their tyranny.

Given the English translation's supposed 1968 publication date ( http://mek.oszk.hu/00700/00770/cedula.html ) the particular FARKAS István may well be alive. I would not bet on the material being in the public domain.

Are you interested in Hungarian literature in general? I myself am Hungarian, but with an English-speaking wife, so I have appreciation for both originals and translations.
thank you so much ahi for this information ! it's a great help to me. i finally gave up on that text, since as you say the translator is likely still alive, and although i had some very friendly replies from the various people i contacted, no-one was able to discover any definite information.

i am very interested in hungarian litterature in general ; my family has hungarian origins (although i'm not sure how old they are ; my father is from poland and my grandparents and great-grandparents as well, but our name is hungarian) and i feel culturally very close to my eastern european roots. i would love to have some recommendations from you of other hungarian authors to look for, especially similar to Karinthy (both father and son ; i like both of their work although they are very different). of course, i have to read them in translation, since i don't speak hungarian at all.
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Old 05-20-2009, 04:35 PM   #41
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My browser crashed whilst composing my reply to you... second try then:

I have not read much from either Karinthy, but "Tanár Úr Kérem" (Please, Sir!) is one of my favourite books. I am assuming though that in asking for other writers like him, you are looking for other light(hearted) fiction of some sort.

MIKSZÁTH Kálmán is an author I can ardently recommend for such books. MEK only has one book from him ( http://mek.oszk.hu/00900/00951/ ) but if you can find English translations of some of his other novels, particularly "Sipsirica" (Shipshiritsa [it's a name]), "Gavallérok" (Gentlemen), or "Beszterce Ostroma" (The Siege of Beszterce) I highly recommend it.

MEK also has a book of Hungarian short stories, which might get you acquainted with a few more writers: http://mek.oszk.hu/00400/00433/

On a less lighthearted side, if one of the available English translations appeal to you, I recommend trying to read MADÁCH Imre's "Az Ember Tragédiája" (The Tragedy of Man):
http://mek.oszk.hu/00900/00915/
http://mek.oszk.hu/00900/00917/
http://mek.oszk.hu/00900/00918/
http://mek.oszk.hu/00800/00876/

GÁRDONYI Géza's "A láthatatlan ember" (The Invisible Man, published in English as "Slave of the Huns") is a great but reasonably light book about a recently freed slave who sells himself into the slavery of a Hun nobleman after falling in love with his daughter. The book offers a strikingly different (from the usual western barbarian write-off) view of Attila and the Hunnic Empire. Somewhat expensive, as it no longer seems to be in print, but definitely available:
http://www.amazon.com/Slave-Huns-Gez.../dp/0672505002
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/...f%20the%20Huns

I have also been toying with the idea of translating "A láthatatlan ember" a.k.a. "Slave of the Huns"--the English translation that was published is recent enough to still be under copyright. If it seems like I am making any meaningful progress, perhaps I'll post the occasional update on it somewhere on these forums.

Other obvious authors to consider would include JÓKAI Mór--unfortunately whose [arguably] most interesting book, an early and strangely prophetic science fiction novel called "A jövő század regénye" (The novel of the next century) is not available--and REJTŐ Jenő (published as P. Howard in the anglosphere, and fairly widely available). Stuff from them and others are available here via MEK:
http://mek.oszk.hu/html/vgi/kereses/...k&fotema=human

I will think about whether or not I can think of anything more that's likely to be available in English. Are you interested in folktales too, or just novels and short-stories?

- Ahi
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:55 PM   #42
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wow, thank you so much ahi ! i can't wait to discover these authors. you're right that Frigyes Karinthy is very light-hearted and funny most of the time (although with plenty of underlying social commentary nonetheless !) and i do like that style very much but Ferenc Karinthy's writing (the son) is very different, much closer to kafka. i only read part of Epépé, as i unfortunately had to return it to the library before i finished it, but i will definitely finish it one day and from what i read i recommend it.

i'm interested in any recommendations you want to make, including folktales ; i have very eclectic tastes in books so i'm open to trying almost anything and as i said i have a particular interest in hungarian writers (and polish and russian and tchčque...).
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:22 AM   #43
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With your particular ancestry (Hungarian/Polish/Czech), Zelda; you might find the life and accounts of BENYOSZKY Móric ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moric_Benovsky ) quite interesting. Freedom fighter for both Hungary and Poland, world traveller, unifier and Emperor of Madagascar, et cetera.

And, his wife is a (non-direct) ancestral relation of my family.

A scan of his memoirs:
http://shinku.nichibun.ac.jp/kichosh...0000001x1.html

And in some more formats (unfortunately I think the text based stuff is poor quality OCR only):
http://www.archive.org/details/memoi...lsof00benyuoft

Two websites about him:
http://www.amphilsoc.org/library/exhibits/benyowsky/
http://www.benyovszky.com/
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:09 AM   #44
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Here is a website database of Hungarian translations (not exhaustive and contains only metadata, not texts--but might give you ideas about what is available):

http://translations.bookfinder.hu/indexa.htm

There is also a website dedicated to Hungarian literature that might be of interest to you, Zelda:

http://www.hlo.hu/
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:13 AM   #45
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thank you very much for all this, ahi ! i am bookmarking all of these sites.

i've got no czech ancestry that i know of, i just happen to have a great love for kafka and the city of prague, among other things... i'm mostly polish, hungarian, russian, oh and some french. (oh also some irish too now that i think of it... i'm a real purebred. ).
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