How good is Kindle DX for PDFs with images?

thehumanking · 07-28-2010, 06:12 AM

Hi,

I read computer books all the time, and my eyes are really strained. I heard that Kindle DX is good for PDFs with images and figures. Is that true?
I live in Egypt and I will pay around the double to get it shipped to my home, please help me. I need to know if it worth the effort and the money? I'm not interested in wireless access at all, it doesn't support Egypt anyway.

I just want read PDFs with good quality fonts and with no eye strain

Thanks for help,
Mick

Tomsk · 07-28-2010, 08:30 AM

I recently purchased a KDXG manily for reading PDFs. I previously had a BeBook Mini.

L to R : PC screen grab (Adobe Reader), BeBook Mini, Kindle DXG
As you can see the BBM fails miserably at displaying the PDF.
The PDF is page 3 from the Canon 7D manual. It can be downloaded from - http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/profes...uresAndManuals
- file eos7d-im2-en.pdf. Images of the BBM and KDXG were taken by scanning my ereaders.
The images of the BBM and KDXG are blurred because their displays are set into the casings and my scanner is unable to focus on them. In normal use the ereader dispalys are as sharp as your eyes can focus on them.

If you can provide a legal link to some of the PDFs you would be reading, I'll try them and report back.

zetareticuli · 07-28-2010, 08:41 AM

Thank you for such an informational reply to the original poster's questions. A picture is worth a thousand words. I am also interested in the Kindle DXG and I would like to ask you to load this PDF (http://archive.stsci.edu/kepler/manu...-19033-001.pdf). This is the type of document I would be reading on the DXG. What would you say the readability is in your opinion such as text size, etc? Screen shots would also be very helpful. Thank you.

thehumanking · 07-28-2010, 09:22 AM

Thanks alot and this is a sample, http://www.apress.com/book/downloadfile/336 plz download it from the website it's less than 1MB

One more thing, do you really recommend the Kindle DX for PDF files? I can't tell from the image if it's good or not. I really need your help because I wil paying alot of money in our Egyptian Pounds to get this, and it will be very bad if it's not good.
Thanks again!!!
Mick

kindlematic · 07-28-2010, 11:04 AM

Hi,
I'm attaching 2 screenshots from those two files - I've chosen on purpose a "problematic" page for one of them, where you can see how a font which would look good through anti-aliasing on the screen of your laptop, can render less well on the kindle.

In general, both files render well - it's just that some fonts look better than others. Please note that these are screenshots taken by the Kindle itself, which means the contrast is not accurate (what you see as white in reality will be greyish), but the definition of the black content (the ink itself) is.

For both documents I would recommend the Kindle DX. I didn't crop the files - you could achieve slightly better results by cropping the files. For the fonts that don't look that good, if you use the Kindle in landscape, it will improve.

As discussed with zetareticuli elsewhere, the support for PDF is far from ideal, but it can improve

thehumanking · 07-28-2010, 11:26 AM

Thanks kindlematic,

There is somethign I don't understand here. When I clicked on the above pic on the left, I see it in great font but when I enlrage it in IE 8 it's horrible. Which one is true on the Kindle DX???
So using Kindle DX to transfer files from my PC to it and read them is a good experience in your opinion? I'm not interested in "features" I just want a good easy on the eye experience and of course I want it to remember where I was on the book.
What do you think?
Thanks again
Mick

kindlematic · 07-28-2010, 11:33 AM

Mick,
You should consider that the actual size of the Kindle screen is 9.7" diagonal. So, don't zoom in this picture, as it would look awful. If you zoom in with the Kindle, it would look good. The only problem is with the text around the picture in the second attachment: it doesn't look sharp on the Kindle, because of the font used.
All in all, it is a good experience - not perfect, but good.

zetareticuli · 07-28-2010, 11:34 AM

Kindlematic, thanks a lot. I think I am going to buy the Kindle DXG. I know it is not ideal. I know the PDF support leaves a lot to be desired but the Kindle DXG is all there is now for technical documents. As we discussed in another thread, I am willing to put in development time to bring features to the Kindle. Some development efforts have resulted very fruitful. An avid developer was recently able to play around with the kernel on the Kindle 2. I think that it would be just a matter of time before either Amazon or the developer community are able to improve Kindle functionality.

Let me ask you, are you at least partially satisfied with the Kindle DXG as it is now? I mean, do most of your documents display in a way that are easily readable? Are you able to work around most of the issues by using tools to reformat the PDFs? Or are you at the point that you are almost ready to send the Kindle DXG back for a full refund.

I know there will be significantly better devices to read technical PDFs in a few months but I need something sooner rather than later to read my technical PDFs on. I am willing to invest on the Kindle DXG now and then invest on a new device by mid 2011. By that time, I am sure there will be plenty of other choices, probably better, than the Kindle DXG. Perhaps even another e-reader with a large screen from Amazon.

I can say this with 100% certainty: the PDFs that I read require a screen larger than 6". Whatever device I get has to be large enough to comfortably support these PDFs.

thehumanking · 07-28-2010, 11:44 AM

Again, thanks alot for your help

.
You said "The only problem is with the text around the picture in the second attachment: it doesn't look sharp on the Kindle, because of the font used."

if it's only the text around the picture that is not sharp, and the rest of the text-only pages are sharp I think it's fine by me. Is that holds true? I mean the sharpness of text-only pages?

zetareticuli, good luck man and hope you will enjoy reading on your Kindle DX.

kindlematic, Do you have the second generation or the latest generation Kindle DX? for me I don't care about the wireless connectivity thing so I don't know which one to get of these 2.

zetareticuli · 07-28-2010, 11:47 AM

TheHumanking: Thanks, my friend. Make sure you get the Kindle DX Graphite model. That model has an enhanced display. You definitely want this one and not the previous Kindle DX.

jswinden · 07-28-2010, 11:56 AM

I think as far as e-Ink devices the KDXG is probably the best current model device for PDFs. No e-Ink device is going to do a great job with PDFs compared to a computer or even the iPad. The e-Ink devices tend to have slower processors, and e-Ink screens are less responsive (slower) than LCD screens. But the iPad and computers have limitations as well. They tend to be bigger or at least heavier, and the LCD screens are more of a strain on the eyes for prolonged reading, and at least in the case of the iPad are too glossy and reflect too much background light. Their battery life is usually less too.

With the laws now being interpreted (in the USA at least) that it is legal to jail break an electronic device, that might open up third-party development. Amazon, and even greedy Apple, are not likely to pursue individuals in legal battles when it will cost them a fortune and they cannot get much as far as a settlement. Developers who try to make a living off of third-party jail-break software might be targeted, but those who do open source development are probably fairly safe. I wouldn't worry about Amazon as they seemed to be committed to using multiple platforms and to selling books. Apple on the other hand wants to control both hardware and software, so they might be more apt to go after developers, even if they are doing open source software.

I think with companies like Amazon, they might even gladly look the other way if open source enhancements greatly improve their readers and they see an increase in book sales as a result. After all, books sales is where their "bread and butter" profits come from. Apple on the other hand is more controlling, but since they don't make e-Ink readers that is a moot point.

kindlematic · 07-28-2010, 11:57 AM

@thehumanking yes, the text-only pages are fine, you can definitely read them with it. as for the difference between generations, I have never seen the original DX, so I can't say.
According to Amazon's map some areas of Egypt are covered by the wireless:
http://client0.cellmaps.com/tabs.html#cellmaps_intl_tab

However, in case you didn't care about wireless at all, and just wanted the cheapest possible DX, you can still find the original version of the DX, US version, refurbished:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...on=refurbished

Beware this will not work at all with any wireless service outside of the US

zetareticuli · 07-28-2010, 11:59 AM

Agreed. The new interpretation of the laws is very good news for all of us. We can expect to see an increase in development attempts that will definitely result in more hacks and more apps/utilities. I know I will be part of this effort as well.

thehumanking · 07-28-2010, 12:01 PM

Thank you guys and thanks for the warning about Kindle DXG, can you give me a link to it at amazon.com? I hope I will have the money by the next month so I can figure out a way to get it

kindlematic · 07-28-2010, 12:10 PM

@zetareticuli

For the most part, I can get around to do what I need to do: read my PDFs. The font issue bothers me, because I have seen how other PDFs in different fonts can look superb on the DX, so I just hope that either the community or Amazon can improve on this. But other than that, and other annoyances due to poor usability of PDFs, I can read them and I enjoy doing so. It would be interesting to see when a real competitor to the DX appears on the market, to see whether Amazon will then improve their software further. I bet they will have to - because people buying the DX do so primarily for using it with documents not bought on the Kindle store.

07-28-2010, 06:12 AM	#1
thehumanking Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: none	How good is Kindle DX for PDFs with images? Hi, I read computer books all the time, and my eyes are really strained. I heard that Kindle DX is good for PDFs with images and figures. Is that true? I live in Egypt and I will pay around the double to get it shipped to my home, please help me. I need to know if it worth the effort and the money? I'm not interested in wireless access at all, it doesn't support Egypt anyway. I just want read PDFs with good quality fonts and with no eye strain Thanks for help, Mick

07-28-2010, 09:22 AM	#4
thehumanking Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: none	Thanks alot and this is a sample, http://www.apress.com/book/downloadfile/336 plz download it from the website it's less than 1MB One more thing, do you really recommend the Kindle DX for PDF files? I can't tell from the image if it's good or not. I really need your help because I wil paying alot of money in our Egyptian Pounds to get this, and it will be very bad if it's not good. Thanks again!!! Mick Last edited by thehumanking; 07-28-2010 at 09:24 AM.

07-28-2010, 11:04 AM	#5
kindlematic Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: kindle dxg	Hi, I'm attaching 2 screenshots from those two files - I've chosen on purpose a "problematic" page for one of them, where you can see how a font which would look good through anti-aliasing on the screen of your laptop, can render less well on the kindle. In general, both files render well - it's just that some fonts look better than others. Please note that these are screenshots taken by the Kindle itself, which means the contrast is not accurate (what you see as white in reality will be greyish), but the definition of the black content (the ink itself) is. For both documents I would recommend the Kindle DX. I didn't crop the files - you could achieve slightly better results by cropping the files. For the fonts that don't look that good, if you use the Kindle in landscape, it will improve. As discussed with zetareticuli elsewhere, the support for PDF is far from ideal, but it can improve Attached Thumbnails

07-28-2010, 11:56 AM	#11
jswinden Nameless Being	I think as far as e-Ink devices the KDXG is probably the best current model device for PDFs. No e-Ink device is going to do a great job with PDFs compared to a computer or even the iPad. The e-Ink devices tend to have slower processors, and e-Ink screens are less responsive (slower) than LCD screens. But the iPad and computers have limitations as well. They tend to be bigger or at least heavier, and the LCD screens are more of a strain on the eyes for prolonged reading, and at least in the case of the iPad are too glossy and reflect too much background light. Their battery life is usually less too. With the laws now being interpreted (in the USA at least) that it is legal to jail break an electronic device, that might open up third-party development. Amazon, and even greedy Apple, are not likely to pursue individuals in legal battles when it will cost them a fortune and they cannot get much as far as a settlement. Developers who try to make a living off of third-party jail-break software might be targeted, but those who do open source development are probably fairly safe. I wouldn't worry about Amazon as they seemed to be committed to using multiple platforms and to selling books. Apple on the other hand wants to control both hardware and software, so they might be more apt to go after developers, even if they are doing open source software. I think with companies like Amazon, they might even gladly look the other way if open source enhancements greatly improve their readers and they see an increase in book sales as a result. After all, books sales is where their "bread and butter" profits come from. Apple on the other hand is more controlling, but since they don't make e-Ink readers that is a moot point. Last edited by jswinden; 07-28-2010 at 02:57 PM.

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07-28-2010, 08:30 AM	#2
Tomsk Womble Posts: 120 Karma: 4505298 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Manchester, UK Device: KFHDX8.9, Fujitsu S1300, Voyage, K7	I recently purchased a KDXG manily for reading PDFs. I previously had a BeBook Mini. L to R : PC screen grab (Adobe Reader), BeBook Mini, Kindle DXG As you can see the BBM fails miserably at displaying the PDF. The PDF is page 3 from the Canon 7D manual. It can be downloaded from - http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/profes...uresAndManuals - file eos7d-im2-en.pdf. Images of the BBM and KDXG were taken by scanning my ereaders. The images of the BBM and KDXG are blurred because their displays are set into the casings and my scanner is unable to focus on them. In normal use the ereader dispalys are as sharp as your eyes can focus on them. If you can provide a legal link to some of the PDFs you would be reading, I'll try them and report back.

07-28-2010, 08:41 AM	#3
zetareticuli Addict Posts: 367 Karma: 228 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Aztak Mentor	Thank you for such an informational reply to the original poster's questions. A picture is worth a thousand words. I am also interested in the Kindle DXG and I would like to ask you to load this PDF (http://archive.stsci.edu/kepler/manu...-19033-001.pdf). This is the type of document I would be reading on the DXG. What would you say the readability is in your opinion such as text size, etc? Screen shots would also be very helpful. Thank you.

07-28-2010, 11:26 AM	#6
thehumanking Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: none	Thanks kindlematic, There is somethign I don't understand here. When I clicked on the above pic on the left, I see it in great font but when I enlrage it in IE 8 it's horrible. Which one is true on the Kindle DX??? So using Kindle DX to transfer files from my PC to it and read them is a good experience in your opinion? I'm not interested in "features" I just want a good easy on the eye experience and of course I want it to remember where I was on the book. What do you think? Thanks again Mick

07-28-2010, 11:33 AM	#7
kindlematic Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: kindle dxg	Mick, You should consider that the actual size of the Kindle screen is 9.7" diagonal. So, don't zoom in this picture, as it would look awful. If you zoom in with the Kindle, it would look good. The only problem is with the text around the picture in the second attachment: it doesn't look sharp on the Kindle, because of the font used. All in all, it is a good experience - not perfect, but good.

07-28-2010, 11:34 AM	#8
zetareticuli Addict Posts: 367 Karma: 228 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Aztak Mentor	Kindlematic, thanks a lot. I think I am going to buy the Kindle DXG. I know it is not ideal. I know the PDF support leaves a lot to be desired but the Kindle DXG is all there is now for technical documents. As we discussed in another thread, I am willing to put in development time to bring features to the Kindle. Some development efforts have resulted very fruitful. An avid developer was recently able to play around with the kernel on the Kindle 2. I think that it would be just a matter of time before either Amazon or the developer community are able to improve Kindle functionality. Let me ask you, are you at least partially satisfied with the Kindle DXG as it is now? I mean, do most of your documents display in a way that are easily readable? Are you able to work around most of the issues by using tools to reformat the PDFs? Or are you at the point that you are almost ready to send the Kindle DXG back for a full refund. I know there will be significantly better devices to read technical PDFs in a few months but I need something sooner rather than later to read my technical PDFs on. I am willing to invest on the Kindle DXG now and then invest on a new device by mid 2011. By that time, I am sure there will be plenty of other choices, probably better, than the Kindle DXG. Perhaps even another e-reader with a large screen from Amazon. I can say this with 100% certainty: the PDFs that I read require a screen larger than 6". Whatever device I get has to be large enough to comfortably support these PDFs.

07-28-2010, 11:44 AM	#9
thehumanking Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: none	Again, thanks alot for your help . You said "The only problem is with the text around the picture in the second attachment: it doesn't look sharp on the Kindle, because of the font used." if it's only the text around the picture that is not sharp, and the rest of the text-only pages are sharp I think it's fine by me. Is that holds true? I mean the sharpness of text-only pages? zetareticuli, good luck man and hope you will enjoy reading on your Kindle DX. kindlematic, Do you have the second generation or the latest generation Kindle DX? for me I don't care about the wireless connectivity thing so I don't know which one to get of these 2.

07-28-2010, 11:47 AM	#10
zetareticuli Addict Posts: 367 Karma: 228 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Aztak Mentor	TheHumanking: Thanks, my friend. Make sure you get the Kindle DX Graphite model. That model has an enhanced display. You definitely want this one and not the previous Kindle DX.

07-28-2010, 11:57 AM	#12
kindlematic Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: kindle dxg	@thehumanking yes, the text-only pages are fine, you can definitely read them with it. as for the difference between generations, I have never seen the original DX, so I can't say. According to Amazon's map some areas of Egypt are covered by the wireless: http://client0.cellmaps.com/tabs.html#cellmaps_intl_tab However, in case you didn't care about wireless at all, and just wanted the cheapest possible DX, you can still find the original version of the DX, US version, refurbished: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...on=refurbished Beware this will not work at all with any wireless service outside of the US

07-28-2010, 11:59 AM	#13
zetareticuli Addict Posts: 367 Karma: 228 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Aztak Mentor	Agreed. The new interpretation of the laws is very good news for all of us. We can expect to see an increase in development attempts that will definitely result in more hacks and more apps/utilities. I know I will be part of this effort as well.

07-28-2010, 12:01 PM	#14
thehumanking Member Posts: 10 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: none	Thank you guys and thanks for the warning about Kindle DXG, can you give me a link to it at amazon.com? I hope I will have the money by the next month so I can figure out a way to get it

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07-28-2010, 12:10 PM	#15
kindlematic Enthusiast Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: kindle dxg	@zetareticuli For the most part, I can get around to do what I need to do: read my PDFs. The font issue bothers me, because I have seen how other PDFs in different fonts can look superb on the DX, so I just hope that either the community or Amazon can improve on this. But other than that, and other annoyances due to poor usability of PDFs, I can read them and I enjoy doing so. It would be interesting to see when a real competitor to the DX appears on the market, to see whether Amazon will then improve their software further. I bet they will have to - because people buying the DX do so primarily for using it with documents not bought on the Kindle store.