Is this a horrible time to be a writer?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

So Steve, what's your beef?

I don't have one. I posed a question, which has been answered in any number of ways.

[Worldwalker]

I'm seeing some of what I think are erroneous beliefs in this thread:

- in the pre-ebook era, writing was a viable way to make a living for many or most authors
- the reason that is no longer the case is the unauthorized copying of ebooks
- the majority of people are dishonest, and will act dishonestly by preference
- if a question is unanswered or a point is ignored, everybody will forget it ever existed

None of these is true.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

None of these is true.

Well, since simply saying so does not make them false, either, feel free to explain why, and we can continue to discuss it, or take one side or the other as settled and move on.

Regarding what I'm sure is your main point of contention here, you must take into account the role society plays in encouraging people to "do the right thing," as well as the documented cases of human behavior that is exhibited when society breaks down, or takes a clearly immoral turn. And again, I'm not saying all people do society's bidding, nor that all people turn into homocidal maniacs when society's back is turned. There are degrees of dishonesty, just as there are degrees of lying, and when given a moment of opportunity that seems harmless enough, many of us will pick the low-hanging fruit from the orchard as we happen by.

It is this trend, in the current lawless environment of the web, that has encouraged digital piracy in otherwise law-abiding people.

[mr ploppy]

I've only read the first post, I've put the rest on my ereader to look at later, but I find the idea that a writer would say something like this is quite bizarre. There has never been a better time to be a writer. All the barriers between writers and their audience have been removed, so if you want to write, JFDI.

It's never been better for publishers either. The next time they want to find some new writer to exploit they won't need to look through thousands of manuscripts to find them. Jut go to Smashwords or wherever and look through the ones with the highest ratings, all the readers have done most of your job for you.

I don't really understand this obsession with people who might read it for free either. By the time you're popular enough to be pirated you will be coining it in anyway, but even if someone does read your book for free what difference does it make? What is the logic in wanting them to read someone else's book for free instead?

[starrigger]

I'd like to suggest that we cut Steve a little slack here. He's written a number of books, and he's feeling discouraged, and I know exactly how that feels. I give him credit for being willing to put his feelings upfront here in a mostly friendly community.

At the same time, I urge Steve to stop thinking that piracy is a very likely culprit in the problem of low sales. I suspect you don't actually believe it yourself, Steve, given that you sell your books in DRM-free format. Your complaints to me sound more like a snarl of frustration, and you're basically looking for something to pin your frustration on, and some solution. If you really thought your readers were thieves, I don't think you'd keep selling DRM-free books. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

There are so many more likely factors in your problem, all of which have already been mentioned, so I won't repeat them. I'll just suggest that whatever harm the pirate sites might be doing in giving your books away for free, it's probably outweighed by the free publicity they're giving you, in making your name more visible.

[NickSpalding]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It's never been better for publishers either. The next time they want to find some new writer to exploit they won't need to look through thousands of manuscripts to find them. Jut go to Smashwords or wherever and look through the ones with the highest ratings, all the readers have done most of your job for you.

Um, no, not really. This is something of a miconception fuelled by a couple of very, very rare examples.

I'm afraid most of the material that's self-published is automatically regarded as crap by agents and publishers. Fair? probably not. More or less accurate? Probably so. They don't need to go searching for books, enough are sent to them in the first place. Reviews from others pretty much count for nothing. Agents and publishers rely on their own opnions of what work they see that's submitted to them. The idea that a self publisher can increase their chances of publication through amazon, smashwords et al. is more or less a fallacy.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

By the time you're popular enough to be pirated you will be coining it in anyway...

Another fine myth, I'm afraid.

[Marcy]

Originally Posted by starrigger

I'd like to suggest that we cut Steve a little slack here. He's written a number of books, and he's feeling discouraged, and I know exactly how that feels. I give him credit for being willing to put his feelings upfront here in a mostly friendly community.

At the same time, I urge Steve to stop thinking that piracy is a very likely culprit in the problem of low sales. I suspect you don't actually believe it yourself, Steve, given that you sell your books in DRM-free format. Your complaints to me sound more like a snarl of frustration, and you're basically looking for something to pin your frustration on, and some solution. If you really thought your readers were thieves, I don't think you'd keep selling DRM-free books. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

There are so many more likely factors in your problem, all of which have already been mentioned, so I won't repeat them. I'll just suggest that whatever harm the pirate sites might be doing in giving your books away for free, it's probably outweighed by the free publicity they're giving you, in making your name more visible.

Actually I have to apologize to you. I got you guys mixed up and thought you were the thread starter. It is your books I bought from fictionwise despite having them available on a torrent. I'm not sorry I bought them anymore...



-Marcy

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by Marcy

Actually I have to apologize to you. I got you guys mixed up and thought you were the thread starter. It is your books I bought from fictionwise despite having them available on a torrent. I'm not sorry I bought them anymore...



-Marcy

Thanks for buying my books.

For some reason, it's my life story that people want to call me "Steve." I once had a chance to get a book signed by Ray Bradbury, and as I walked away, I saw that he'd signed it to "Steve." I'm getting used to it.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by NickSpalding

Um, no, not really. This is something of a miconception fuelled by a couple of very, very rare examples.

I'm afraid most of the material that's self-published is automatically regarded as crap by agents and publishers. Fair? probably not. More or less accurate? Probably so. They don't need to go searching for books, enough are sent to them in the first place. Reviews from others pretty much count for nothing. Agents and publishers rely on their own opnions of what work they see that's submitted to them. The idea that a self publisher can increase their chances of publication through amazon, smashwords et al. is more or less a fallacy.

It could just be the genres that I am interested in, but I know of a lot of ex-self publishers and bloggers who have gained book deals as a direct result of that. If the mainstream publishers are still relying on writers sending off manuscripts with their fingers crossed someone might read it, then that is very short sighted of them.

[NickSpalding]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It could just be the genres that I am interested in, but I know of a lot of ex-self publishers and bloggers who have gained book deals as a direct result of that. If the mainstream publishers are still relying on writers sending off manuscripts with their fingers crossed someone might read it, then that is very short sighted of them.

Examples? I'm more than happy to be proved wrong! To my knowledge I can't think of more than one or two authors at most who have gone on to get contracts with agents and had their books published with successful sales - though you might know something I don't.

From the enormous slush piles on publishers and agents desks, I don't think they have to worry about going looking for new authors too much, they can still rely on submissions coming in for quite some time to come, I think.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by starrigger

I'll just suggest that whatever harm the pirate sites might be doing in giving your books away for free, it's probably outweighed by the free publicity they're giving you, in making your name more visible.

I just had a look on the pirate book sites for Steve Jordan books, and assuming he isn't the one that wrote the CCDA Official Exam Certification Guide, the only one I could find was The Onuissance Cells.pdf within a jumble of over a 100 ebooks by people that I have mostly never heard of. It's been there for about 17 months, but that particular site doesn't tell you how many times it has been downloaded. It has generated 3 follow up comments, one of them is thanks for a book by someone else.

The Onuissance Cells is a (authorised) free download anyway, and anyone who wanted it wouldn't have to put up with a crappy pdf:
http://www.stevejordanbooks.com/novels/onus.htm

So does anyone want to explain how he has lost any money from the availability of that book on the pirate scene? Because unless the authorised one is full of paid adverts that have been chopped out of the unauthorised one, I'm really struggling to understand what the fuss is about.

[pietvo]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

This site, and many others like it, are replete with members who willingly download books and music from torrents and other sites, and use as their reasoning the belief that no one will be able to stop them... that's the way it is, so it's okay, QED, "get used to it."

I think almost everyone here downloads books. Free ones, that is. So let's suppose you mean illegal ones. Can you tell us what percentage of Mobileread members do download illegal ebooks and music? It doesn't have to be exact, ±10% is OK with me. Can you also tell how you got at these numbers?

I'm not saying everyone is this way... but it is a major proportion of our society, and it must be dealt with. That's why we have laws, and law enforcement agencies... there's no point in acting like it's not there.

Same question here about the proportion of society.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by NickSpalding

Examples? I'm more than happy to be proved wrong! To my knowledge I can't think of more than one or two authors at most who have gone on to get contracts with agents and had their books published with successful sales - though you might know something I don't.

Well I don't know about successful sales, you just threw that one in, but off the top of my head: David Moody, Scott Sigler, Iain McKinnon, Blake Crouch, David Wellington, James Melzer, Z A Recht, J L Bourne, Max Brooks, David Dunwoody. There's probably more, but those are all ones I am familiar with, some of them from before the publishers came sniffing round.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by pietvo

I think almost everyone here downloads books. Free ones, that is. So let's suppose you mean illegal ones. Can you tell us what percentage of Mobileread members do download illegal ebooks and music? It doesn't have to be exact, ±10% is OK with me. Can you also tell how you got at these numbers?


Same question here about the proportion of society.

So, you're trying to suggest that, unless I have specific figures, I'm all wrong?

Sorry. Statement stands. It does not depend on "numbers."