KF8 Demo

Soldim · 12-17-2011, 03:38 AM

Here's a blot post with some interesting info about KF8:

http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...now-available/

Anybody here been playing with it?

tomsem · 12-20-2011, 12:37 AM

Well, I at least thought that was interesting, also.

But I'd really like to see the new tools, an in particular, how these handle degradation to what we previously thought of as 'mobi'. I can see where we'll usually get a good, more or less lossless KF8 conversion from most ePub filies, but the conversion ePub to mobi that the tools currently do is not fully adequate (not that it prevents some big publishers from using it, rather than deriving mobi source files). Even downgrading from 'native' KF8 source to 'legacy' mobi seems like it would be problematic, unless there's some provision to include legacy source in parallel.

I think 'legacy' devices will experience some loss of quality as a result. And I'm assuming the cutoff will be K4 and later, i.e. Kindle Keyboard will not get KF8 capabilities. Hope I'm wrong about that.

tubemonkey · 12-20-2011, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsem

I think 'legacy' devices will experience some loss of quality as a result. And I'm assuming the cutoff will be K4 and later, i.e. Kindle Keyboard will not get KF8 capabilities. Hope I'm wrong about that.

Let's say it works on these models. What would it offer when reading a novel such as "Animal Farm"?

HarryT · 12-20-2011, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Let's say it works on these models. What would it offer when reading a novel such as "Animal Farm"?

Probably the same kind of things that can be used to "pretty up" an ePub book, such as drop caps, text flowing around illustrations, embedded fonts, etc. None of these is essential, but they can certainly make a book look much more attractive.

tubemonkey · 12-20-2011, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Probably the same kind of things that can be used to "pretty up" an ePub book, such as drop caps, text flowing around illustrations, embedded fonts, etc. None of these is essential, but they can certainly make a book look much more attractive.

Thanks. Sounds like it's nothing I need for the type of reading I do.

mr ploppy · 12-20-2011, 06:17 AM

I don't like the sound of embedded fonts. Even in real books there's a lot of designers who don't have a clue about typography, that's likely to get even worse when amateur designers are doing cut-price ebook work for starving writers.

DiapDealer · 12-20-2011, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsem

Even downgrading from 'native' KF8 source to 'legacy' mobi seems like it would be problematic, unless there's some provision to include legacy source in parallel.

I do believe that the new kindlegen will produce one PRC container that will contain both the mobi AND the KF8 formats (the sample provided by that blog certainly does). The reading app can make the decision on which format to render. I expect that to be the case as long as the mobi format (and devices that only read mobi) lingers.

In other words, I don't expect there to be much of a need to convert KF8 to mobi.

soulfuldog · 12-20-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Thanks. Sounds like it's nothing I need for the type of reading I do.

+1 to that. I simply read fiction, and can easily live without it being "prettied-up". I guess I can stop my sleepless nights fretting over having an obsolete Kindle......

tomsem · 12-20-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I do believe that the new kindlegen will produce one PRC container that will contain both the mobi AND the KF8 formats (the sample provided by that blog certainly does). The reading app can make the decision on which format to render. I expect that to be the case as long as the mobi format (and devices that only read mobi) lingers.

In other words, I don't expect there to be much of a need to convert KF8 to mobi.

Actually, I believe Amazon will only deliver the format that the device or app in question is capable of. So you will not get a PRC container with both formats in it, which would be wasteful of bandwidth and storage.

This is currently the case with a/v enhanced ebooks: if you send to anything other than the K4iOS app, you only get the text. The a/v content is stripped out.

It is an open question as to how 3rd parties can make Kindle content available. They may need to have mobi AND kf8 format available.

DiapDealer · 12-20-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsem

Actually, I believe Amazon will only deliver the format that the device or app in question is capable of. So you will not get a PRC container with both formats in it, which would be wasteful of bandwidth and storage.

This is currently the case with a/v enhanced ebooks: if you send to anything other than the K4iOS app, you only get the text. The a/v content is stripped out.

It is an open question as to how 3rd parties can make Kindle content available. They may need to have mobi AND kf8 format available.

I'm sure you're right about only one format being ultimately delivered to the customer. I just think that the new version of kindlegen will (by default) create the two part PRC that contains both formats (from a single epub source). Then when that file is uploaded to Amazon's servers by the publisher/author, they will be able to deliver the proper format to the proper device.

Bossman · 12-20-2011, 01:14 PM

You can open those KF8 files with 7zip.

From the files within it looks very similar to epub.

DiapDealer · 12-20-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossman

You can open those KF8 files with 7zip.

From the files within it looks very similar to epub.

Most of the MOBIs produced by kindlegen can be "unzipped." But the unzippable portion only represents the source used to create the binary... which would explain why it was very similar to epub.

But having said that... are you sure? I'm unable to unzip either of the KF8 sample files from that blog post. With 7zip or ANY such program

Bossman · 12-20-2011, 01:48 PM

Using 7zip 9.2 i just right clicked on Jerome.mobi and did open archive.

Though it could be the source epub files, but why would you include that in the final file?

Bossman · 12-20-2011, 01:54 PM

ok i compared it with the source file that he used to create them and they include the same files.

If that holds true for the final kf8 files...

DiapDealer · 12-20-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

If that holds true for the final kf8 files...

It won't. That's just what get's uploaded to Amazon after kindlegen creates it. The source files get stripped out before they get delivered to customers.

Those samples are the raw output from a beta version of the upcoming kindlegen program.

Quote:

Using 7zip 9.2 i just right clicked on Jerome.mobi and did open archive.

Wow. I just looked at my 7zip and saw it was version 4.54.

12-17-2011, 03:38 AM	#1
Soldim Not so important Posts: 1,063 Karma: 10181343 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Zurich Device: Sony PRS-505, Kindle 4, iPad, Kobo Glo 4	KF8 Demo Here's a blot post with some interesting info about KF8: http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...now-available/ Anybody here been playing with it?

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12-20-2011, 12:37 AM	#2
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,478 Karma: 26425959 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Well, I at least thought that was interesting, also. But I'd really like to see the new tools, an in particular, how these handle degradation to what we previously thought of as 'mobi'. I can see where we'll usually get a good, more or less lossless KF8 conversion from most ePub filies, but the conversion ePub to mobi that the tools currently do is not fully adequate (not that it prevents some big publishers from using it, rather than deriving mobi source files). Even downgrading from 'native' KF8 source to 'legacy' mobi seems like it would be problematic, unless there's some provision to include legacy source in parallel. I think 'legacy' devices will experience some loss of quality as a result. And I'm assuming the cutoff will be K4 and later, i.e. Kindle Keyboard will not get KF8 capabilities. Hope I'm wrong about that.

12-20-2011, 06:17 AM	#6
mr ploppy Feral Underclass Posts: 3,622 Karma: 26821535 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire, tha noz Device: 2nd hand paperback	I don't like the sound of embedded fonts. Even in real books there's a lot of designers who don't have a clue about typography, that's likely to get even worse when amateur designers are doing cut-price ebook work for starving writers.

12-20-2011, 01:14 PM	#11
Bossman Member Posts: 23 Karma: 172 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: Prs505	You can open those KF8 files with 7zip. From the files within it looks very similar to epub.

12-20-2011, 01:48 PM	#13
Bossman Member Posts: 23 Karma: 172 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: Prs505	Using 7zip 9.2 i just right clicked on Jerome.mobi and did open archive. Though it could be the source epub files, but why would you include that in the final file?

12-20-2011, 01:54 PM	#14
Bossman Member Posts: 23 Karma: 172 Join Date: Jul 2008 Device: Prs505	ok i compared it with the source file that he used to create them and they include the same files. If that holds true for the final kf8 files...