Do You Prefer iOS 7 Looks Over Previous iOS Versions?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Windows 8.1 is pretty much the same as Windows 7 on the desktop. Just set it to boot into desktop and use traditional (classic) windows apps. There are several things about it that are better than Windows 7. Boot time, task manager, search, etc. Oh, and it supports touch very well. It may not seem like alot, but it's pretty natural to scroll with touch, swipe through pictures, zoom stuff, etc.

BUt, keep the Fud going... remember how much EVERYONE hatted XP when it came out, and everyone said they were sticking with Windows 95?

BOb

Even with Windows 8.1, you still don't get to use the start menu. You are stuck with viewing an unintuitive start screen that puts another step in the way of running EVERY &*@#$ PROGRAM YOU WILL EVER USE ON A WINDOWS COMPUTER!!!!

Or you could buy Start8, StartIsBack, or similar.

Or just don't upgrade.

The boot time is as far as I am aware merely the effect of saving the RAM to disk -- if you do Windows Update or otherwise restart Windows completely, you don't boot up any faster than on Windows 7.

The Task Manager okay, I'll give you that, no idea about the search since I rarely use it, but Windows 8 is not worth getting just for a revamped task manager and whatever they did for search.

And it doesn't matter how well it supports touch, that's only useful on a tablet and the rare touch-enabled laptop which PEOPLE DON'T BUY. And I would find it pretty clumsy, personally, to be using the keyboard and mouse then have to reach over and touch my screen to scroll, rather than doing something stupid like use the scroll wheel, or zoom with CTRL+scroll which as a shortcut I know about (I'm not necessarily speaking for everyone here) is also just as fast. Why do I need a third input device when the first two are already doing a BETTER job for me and many other people?

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Yea that why you should always back up a device before doing a major OS upgrade.

Huh? What has that got to do with it? I have a full backup available, but I'm not allowed to return to iOS 6 anymore. That only works for a few days after a new iOS version is released. iOS is an extremely low-IQ OS in that it allows you neither to downgrade regular apps, nor to downgrade the OS. What kind of "factory reset" is it that returns you to an iOS released a few weeks ago? My iPad likely left the factory back in 2012! I'm sick of it all, and considering to ditch the silly iPlatform for good.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Yea that why you should always back up a device before doing a major OS upgrade.

BOb

Backups don't let you revert to previous versions of iOS. They only save your appdata and system settings.

Only jailbroken devices that have saved the SHSH blob can be reverted. The SHSH blob is a digital signature that authorizes a particular version for a specific device, and ONLY APPLE IS ALLOWED TO MAKE THEM! A jailbroken device will automatically save these, but only for iPhone/iTouch 4s and older. On searching around, I discovered a program called TinyUmbrella (http://blog.firmwareumbrella.com/faq/) which can be manually used on ANY device even without the jailbreak. Obviously, jailbreak on iPhone 4 is better since it automatically backs up your SHSH blob.

This all does a carefully calculated nothing (Apple's fault BTW) if you didn't actually get one of those keys while Apple still signed it. And they only sign the current release, plus the previous one WITHIN A FEW DAYS OF THE LATER RELEASE!!!

[Faterson]

Atrocious user experience, in any case. I now feel like a slave when using an iDevice (even prisoner seems too mild a word), instead of as a valued customer.

I'm trying to communicate with my PIM software (Toodledo) developer, but they probably can't do anything if iOS 7 refuses to properly display notifications sent from the Toodledo server. (The same notifications display perfectly fine on my old iPad 1 running iOS 5.) Apple is like Microsoft now: apparently you can, by default, expect to get buggy and dysfunctional (not to mention ugly, lame and locked-down) software from them; the Maps last year were only the beginning.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Even with Windows 8.1, you still don't get to use the start menu. You are stuck with viewing an unintuitive start screen that puts another step in the way of running EVERY &*@#$ PROGRAM YOU WILL EVER USE ON A WINDOWS COMPUTER!!!!

Sigh... I never had problems with the start screen. It's basically is a start menu. Although, in Win7 99% of the programs I used I pin to the task bar... and the rest I hit window key, typed in the name, (maybe arrow to it) and press enter to run it... which works exactly the same in Windows 8. Windows 8.1 start screen is even more Start menu like too.

That said there are some things I would like to see. I would like to be able to run Windows Store apps windowed rather than full screen on Windows 8 Pro. Although, 8.1 at least improves multi-screen use and mixing Windows Store apps with desktop apps.

Of course, your welcome to complain about it... I just think most people complain about different rather than taking 10 minutes to learn it and keep an open mind. I just disagree with everyone that claims windows 8 is so bad because the start menu is now a bunch of tiles rather than a list of apps.

...Oh, and if you don't like it, stick with Windows 7... that does't hurt me in any way.

BOb

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The boot time is as far as I am aware merely the effect of saving the RAM to disk -- if you do Windows Update or otherwise restart Windows completely, you don't boot up any faster than on Windows 7.

Um, not true. Windows 8 cold start is much faster than Windows 7. There is no RAM when the PC is off.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The Task Manager okay, I'll give you that, no idea about the search since I rarely use it, but Windows 8 is not worth getting just for a revamped task manager and whatever they did for search.

I do agree, there isn't much of a compelling reason to move from Windows 7 to Windows 8 if you are on a non-Touch machine. Although, as a developer the task manager is important, which is why I always install process explorer on every PC I use.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And it doesn't matter how well it supports touch, that's only useful on a tablet and the rare touch-enabled laptop which PEOPLE DON'T BUY.

I strongly disagree with this. In fact a large percentage of laptop's have touch screens now.. and it will probably be a very rare laptop made post 2013 that doesn't have a touch screen. So, that is what EVERYONE will be buying.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And I would find it pretty clumsy, personally, to be using the keyboard and mouse then have to reach over and touch my screen to scroll, rather than

You "would" or you do. Do you have a laptop with a touch screen? It's really hard to say that unless you've tried it. Actually, moving your hand from the keyboard to the screen to scroll or tap an on screen link/button is actually less motion. When you try it for a week, get back to me and let me know... of course everyone is different as you say.

BOb

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Sigh... I never had problems with the start screen. It's basically is a start menu. Although, in Win7 99% of the programs I used I pin to the task bar... and the rest I hit window key, typed in the name, (maybe arrow to it) and press enter to run it... which works exactly the same in Windows 8. Windows 8.1 start screen is even more Start menu like too.

Having to go to a new screen to get to the start menu is what I mean by unintuitive. Of course, this is on the rare occasion it isn't pinned, or else run from the command line.

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Um, not true. Windows 8 cold start is much faster than Windows 7. There is no RAM when the PC is off.

I didn't say there is RAM running, I said they save it to disk. Technically it's some sort of hybrid hibernate function. Details HERE. Nevertheless, if you do a restart rather than shut down -- or you apply Windows Updates, which usually makes you reboot, you will notice it takes just as long. I borrowed a brand new Win8 laptop and played around with it for several days trying to see what's special about it. If you do that kind of shutdown -- or disable fastboot -- it takes just as long as the Win7 machines I use.

And when a Win7 laptop ran out of battery power, it "saved the RAM to disk" as well, before powering down, achieving the exact same effect as Win8 fastboot. I wonder... could you get some sort of hack to use this in a custom shutdown script...

I strongly disagree with this. In fact a large percentage of laptop's have touch screens now.. and it will probably be a very rare laptop made post 2013 that doesn't have a touch screen. So, that is what EVERYONE will be buying.

If by large percentage you mean 10-15%, but we're not quite at the big numbers yet, so until then, well, the majority of laptops are NOT touch-enabled, which makes Win8 a nightmare.

Nor is it a given that post-2013 non-touch laptops will be rare -- unless things change very fast, we will probably just see them become more mainstream.

An interesting read: http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtm...d=0110014L1BJ1

You "would" or you do. Do you have a laptop with a touch screen? It's really hard to say that unless you've tried it. Actually, moving your hand from the keyboard to the screen to scroll or tap an on screen link/button is actually less motion. When you try it for a week, get back to me and let me know... of course everyone is different as you say.

No I don't, but I can't imagine how how it is less motion to scroll than sliding my finger down the mouse, which is a movement total of .4 inches, and the average movement to click on a link is only a couple inches. Frankly, any movement that involves taking your hand off the mouse and moving to the screen will by definition require much more movement -- and that is something I can test out even without a touchscreen -- granted, I don't get the excitement of controlling my computer like that, but the distance formula stays relatively constant.

[Faterson]

You're not mentioning desktop computers, guys, as if they didn't exist. For me, it's physically impossible to extend my hand and touch any of the monitor screens in my office. I'd have to lean towards them in order to touch them. Both leaning forward and extending one's hand induces fatigue. Windows 8, never for my work computer.

To get back on topic, both Windows 8 and iOS 7 are an equal pile of manure. The situation is desperate. I actually heave a sigh of relief whenever I see the "good old" Windows 7 interface these days. Once you set it up, it works. The exact opposite with execrable iOS 7: every day discloses something new for me that doesn't work properly. And that includes fundamental functionality like notifications.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Faterson

You're not mentioning desktop computers, guys, as if they didn't exist. For me, it's physically impossible to extend my hand and touch any of the monitor screens in my office. I'd have to lean towards them in order to touch them. Both leaning forward and extending one's hand induces fatigue. Windows 8, never for my work computer.

I was kinda assuming that the discussion was only relevant to laptops. You'd have to be insane to want it on the desktop -- at least there's some kind of possibility of using it on the laptop.

Desktops remain the things people use to do real work, and touch will never make it there.

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

You'd have to be insane to want it on the desktop

As you can see, Microsoft was only too happy to make that assumption. But, nothing insane from them would surprise me, after a couple of decades of habitual torture. What shocks me is the utter disaster called iOS 7. That caught me by surprise. My attitude towards the previous iOS versions was, "Meh," but it was at least a tolerable OS, even if amusingly inept. That has changed now; there's no trace of amusement left. I'm positively furious over the nightmare that iOS 7 has become for me. I have basically lost the notification functionality for my PIM software, which is very difficult to swallow. One must mentally transport oneself back to the 1990s, pretend that it's 1992 and that such a functionality simply is not available in the world.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Because?

BOb

Inconsistences between metro versions and desktop versions, confusing search results, charm bar popping up all the time, full screen apps replacement for start menu is jarring, it's like trying to use two different operating systems.

Yes, she has her machine set to be in desktop mode as much as possible, and is reasonably IT literate.

We're talking 9 months of daily use here.

She's now recently bought a Chromebook which she uses in preference whenever she doesn't need the Windows machine, and is swearing never to buy another Windows 8 one.

Graham

[Jessica Lares]

I wish Microsoft would just make the Windows Phone OS for their tablets instead. It would make people really happy. It's a lovely OS that would work very nice on a bigger screen. Already has the Metro/tile apps too.

I'm warming up even more to iOS 7, especially since I don't have notifications popping up every 5 minutes now and it's all collected in the center. I still have a few apps that need to update, but overall it's a very nice transition.

By the way, the head of iOS Engineering just retired.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/3/50...ft-the-company

[Faterson]

Originally Posted by Jessica Lares

I don't have notifications popping up every 5 minutes now and it's all collected in the center.

It's not, that's the problem. Still not reliably receiving PIM notifications and alerts (the most important that can exist!!!) on my iOS 7 devices. It's an absolute nightmare. All notifications and alerts are properly delivered to old iPad 1 running iOS 5. iOS 7 made me hate technology in general.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Graham

Inconsistences between metro versions and desktop versions, confusing search results, charm bar popping up all the time, full screen apps replacement for start menu is jarring, it's like trying to use two different operating systems.

Yes, she has her machine set to be in desktop mode as much as possible, and is reasonably IT literate.

We're talking 9 months of daily use here.

She's now recently bought a Chromebook which she uses in preference whenever she doesn't need the Windows machine, and is swearing never to buy another Windows 8 one.

Graham

Did she try using a start menu replacement?

I suggested that to a few people and haven't heard any complaints yet.... Granted it's only been a few weeks....

The better ones are supposed to remove the metro OS from showing up, leaving you with Win7 + fastboot + new theme + new task manager.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Did she try using a start menu replacement?

I suggested that to a few people and haven't heard any complaints yet.... Granted it's only been a few weeks....

The better ones are supposed to remove the metro OS from showing up, leaving you with Win7 + fastboot + new theme + new task manager.

No she hasn't. But though that might give her a Windows 7 menu, it wouldn't make the charm bar go away, etc.

But why should she go seeking a replacement like that out? She's never needed to before. While pretty IT literate, she's not geeky and just wants things to work out the box: like Windows 7 did for her.

That's the key point. It's not that she's averse to learning new interfaces, she's taken to Android and ChromeOS very quickly, it's that even after 9 months Windows 8 just doesn't make intuitive sense.

Apologies all, this has drifted way off topic. Back to iOS 7!

Graham