Thoughts on how to format a dual-language book for learners?

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by RbnJrg

Yes, indeed, it doesn't work in ADE 2.0;

However, it does work with ADE 2.0.1(78765) and presumably the corresponding RMSDK versions.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

However, it does work with ADE 2.0.1(78765) and presumably the corresponding RMSDK versions.

You gotta admit, that's weird. It doesn't work on one version out of 4? 1.7, 2.0 2.1 and 3.0? Man.

Hitch

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Hitch

You gotta admit, that's weird. It doesn't work on one version out of 4? 1.7, 2.0 2.1 and 3.0? Man.

Hitch

that is pretty common in any code actually. Interpretation: A bug was introduced in 2.0 and fixed in 2.0.1.

Dale

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

that is pretty common in any code actually. Interpretation: A bug was introduced in 2.0 and fixed in 2.0.1.

Dale

Yes, of course. You have a perfectly valid point. I simply overlooked the obvious.

I wish I could remember what it is about Ruben's code that went wonky on Kindle. (KF8), not K7. Dammit.

Hitch

[Arios]

Hi Rubén,

I did a little test on my 2 eReaders (Kobo and Sony) but unfortunately, it doesn't work.
In both cases, the text remains frozen on the first page and does not pass to the next. In other words, only the first page is displayed, not the following ones.

It's a pity because the idea is good and it's tempting, when the opportunity arises, to create a bilingual version of a text that can be read on an eReader (not just within a pc, through Sigil or ADE).

Anyway, the problem may only be connected to my 2 devices.

Doitsu's solution works as expected.

Have, all of you a nice and sunny day!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Doits:

Yeah, it works on 1.7 and 3.0, but not working on 2.0 is problematic due to devices. I don't think anything but ADE is running on 3.0 right now.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if it worked on iBooks; it supports most ePub 3 features.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Arios

Hi Rubén,

I did a little test on my 2 eReaders (Kobo and Sony) but unfortunately, it doesn't work.
In both cases, the text remains frozen on the first page and does not pass to the next. In other words, only the first page is displayed, not the following ones.

It's a pity because the idea is good and it's tempting, when the opportunity arises, to create a bilingual version of a text that can be read on an eReader (not just within a pc, through Sigil or ADE).

Anyway, the problem may only be connected to my 2 devices.

Doitsu's solution works as expected.

Have, all of you a nice and sunny day!

Hi Arios;

Yes, it's a pity that the two columns layout doesn't work under Kobo and Sony. ¿Do you know what is the date of the last Kobo firmware update (or the date of your Kobo update)? I ask you that because maybe is possible for Kobo to update its firmware in order to support the ADE 3.0 features. I see more difficult the things for Sony (is retiring from the ereaders market).

UPDATE: I have just tried the two columns ebook in my tablet with Kobo for Android and works flawlessly. So, that means that the software for Kobo for Android is updated and the issue is with the e-ink devices (maybe not all of them but just some)

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Wouldn't surprise me at all if it worked on iBooks; it supports most ePub 3 features.

I can confirm it works on iBooks,on my first-gen iPad. Can't say beyond that, vis-a-vis Apple products, and until I have absolutely no choice, I won't be spending a small fortune to buy another iPad (due to my rather strong vexed feelings about how the first-gen iPad now simply don't work worth a damn, and of course, Apple being Apple, they jettison anything older than 2 years, thinking that the fanbois will all run out and buy new--which I won't. They have my thou on this freaking device, they don't need any more $$$ from me. Personally, I think anything that costs that much money ought to be supported beyond two years, at least iOS-wise. </mini-rant>)

We have a Kobo we'll check it on, and I'll update this post with an edit.
ETA: This does not work on our Kobo Touch, either. (So, @Arios, it is not just you.) Trying on an Arc next.
ETA: Works perfectly on Kobo Arc.

ETA #4: Thanks Ruben. I didn't think it could work, and it obviously has limitations which make it unsuitable on a wide-scale distribution basis, but if somebody wanted it for iBooks only, we all now know it will work. Well done, that!
ETA #5: Wish I could contemplate how I could trick the KDP into "thinking" it was an FF book, so that it could only be sold to KF8 devices, but I don't see that working well, LOL!

Hitch

[PeterT]

Try forcing Kobo to use the other rendering model. Rename the epub to have a .epub.kepub extension.

This will use the ACCESS engine rather than the RMSDK engine

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by Hitch

ETA #4: Thanks Ruben. I didn't think it could work, and it obviously has limitations which make it unsuitable on a wide-scale distribution basis, but if somebody wanted it for iBooks only, we all now know it will work. Well done, that!

Hitch

You are welcome Hitch, and thanks to you too for your words.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Try forcing Kobo to use the other rendering model. Rename the epub to have a .epub.kepub extension.

This will use the ACCESS engine rather than the RMSDK engine

That should be ".kepub.epub".

And trying it on my Kobo Glo with firmware 3.2.0...

As an epub, the first page displayed the two columns correctly and showed "Page 1 of 3" at the bottom. But, trying to page forward didn't work and just closed the book and marked it finished.

Loading it as ".kepub.epub" seemed to work correctly. I had three pages that looked roughly like the screenshots that RbnJrg posted. I could page backwards and forwards through them without any problems.

[Arios]

@ Davidfor,

I confirm: if we add the extension .kepub, the Rubén file (Two Cols.epub) is displayed and react properly with the Kobo Touch (firmware 2.8.1 in my case).

This reminds me of the old and annoying bug of long paragraphs with the Kobo (always active AFAIK): the same file that does not work with epub, goes very well with .kepub.epub (if widows and orphans are set to 1 though).

Anyway, the ".kepub solution" is an interesting thing for 2 reasons: 1) Kobo's owners have a B plan and 2) it proves that the Kobo kepub extension is better integrated than ADE in theirs own devices (is it very surprising?).

That said, it remains a problem to be solved for the Rubén's solution: paragraph alignment. Indeed, in the context of a translation side by side, it is really important that each portion (paragraph) is aligned, without any offset. This is not easy because no part of a translation contains the same number of words from one language to another.

[PeterT]

If I'm not mistaken, the ACCESS engine is an ePub3 based one from NetFront as opposed to RMSDK which is still an ePub2 engine.

If Kobo only used ACCESS then it would loose the ability to handle the ADE DRM based ePubs.

[AlPe]

You might find interesting some ideas behind EPUB3Reader, an experimental EPUB reader (for Android) designed for handling complex texts, including parallel texts: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=222054

I just want to add to the discussion: today's methods rely on graphical principles (e.g., devising two side-by-side columns of text, or interleaving paragraphs, etc.) which in turns influence the actual code of ebook. Instead, I am a big fan of a declarative approach (e.g., marking corresponding text fragments), as it will allow different reading modalities. For example, while a beginner probably needs to have original+translation in parallel, an advanced reader might just want to consult the translation only from time to time (e.g., via floating popups or panels at the bottom of the screen).

Please see https://github.com/pettarin/epub3reader for more ideas on the above issue.

[RbnJrg]

Originally Posted by AlPe

You might find interesting some ideas behind EPUB3Reader, an experimental EPUB reader (for Android) designed for handling complex texts, including parallel texts: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=222054

In fact, that looks very interesting. But in https://github.com/pettarin/epub3reader I can't see any .apk file (just one .zip file with some .epub and the source code for the app). Can you tell where to download Epub3Reader?

Regards
Rubén