iPad Magnets Can Shut Off Implanted Defibrillators

[Feher]

Originally Posted by wizwor

Finally, a Killer App for the iPad!

[SeaKing]

I have been waiting for the ghost of Steve Jobs to appear
in the form of Tim Scott at a news conference, saying that there is
no problem with the iPad, just with users holding it improperly, and then
Tim lays down on a couch with the iPad resting on his stomach, or even balanced on his head, and saying,

"See, just hold it thus and so, and there is no problem!"

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by meeera

Yes, it's not remotely news - patients with these devices are routinely warned to never, ever get magnetic items or cellphones closer than 6 inches from their chest.

Here are examples of info sheets given to such people:

http://www.medtronic.com/rhythms/dow...ets_online.pdf

http://www.bostonscientific.com/temp...L/CRM/patient/

The first link doesn't mention tablets, it only mentions:

• Decorative refrigerator magnets
• Large home stereo speakers
• Small gas engines
• Hand-held massagers or massage chair cushions
• Magnetic therapy products such as massagers, chair pads, bracelets, knee wraps, back supports, slippers, or shoe insoles

The second link lists personal digital assistants (PDAs; unless used as cell phone; see cell phones) as safe, the 6 inch precaution is only for cell phones.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

The first link doesn't mention tablets, it only mentions:


The second link lists personal digital assistants (PDAs; unless used as cell phone; see cell phones) as safe, the 6 inch precaution is only for cell phones.

The lists do have something in common though - magnets - so if you can't figure out the problem is "magnets" rather than animals that stick on fridges and/or only items in the list then there may be no hope for you anyway...

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by elcreative

The lists do have something in common though - magnets - so if you can't figure out the problem is "magnets" rather than animals that stick on fridges and/or only items in the list then there may be no hope for you anyway...

The point is that some magnets are not strong enough to cause problems. This is why there is a warning about "large home stereo speakers" and not every speaker.

It looks like they considered PDAs to be safe and the new findings suggest that the iPad isn't. You can see that the problem happens if the iPad rests on the chest, so obviously 6 inches is not required.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

The point is that some magnets are not strong enough to cause problems. This is why there is a warning about "large home stereo speakers" and not every speaker.

It looks like they considered PDAs to be safe and the new findings suggest that the iPad isn't. You can see that the problem happens if the iPad rests on the chest, so obviously 6 inches is not required.

Sorry but I disagree... if I had a defib (and I have a friend with one who agrees,) I wouldn't let any size of magnet within a few inches of my chest... and just as an aside, the magnets in my Nexus 7 cover are far stronger than those in my iPad cover so I reckon a safety-first attitude is just common sense...

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Sorry but I disagree... if I had a defib (and I have a friend with one who agrees,) I wouldn't let any size of magnet within a few inches of my chest... and just as an aside, the magnets in my Nexus 7 cover are far stronger than those in my iPad cover so I reckon a safety-first attitude is just common sense...

I don't think that paranoia mixes well with heart problems. I take it your friend doesn't get near people that have phones, mp3 players, etc.

How many magnets do the Nexus7 and the cover have?
ifixit did a teardown of the iPad cover:





This question was asked in 2011 on the Apple website:
as the i pad 2 has magnets in it can you use it if you have a pacemaker
The replies:

As a cardiac nurse I do believe the magnets that are used to activate or deactivate a pacemaker/defibrilator are a different type of magnet than those that would be easily purchased in a store. Furthermore the magnets on this case are too low of a quality to do any damage. One of the Cardiologists that comes to the hospital has one of these and he takes it into pts rooms, some of who have pacemakers, and it hasn't interferred with the pacemaker or our telemetry so far. But if you are still worried, don't go around with it laying on your chest.

I am an anaesthetist and intensive care consultant, not a cardiologist but when we use magnets to disable pacemakers we need to use large, powerful magnets. The magnets in an iPad are very weak and I cannot imagine that they would pose any risk, but it would make sense not to press it to your chest.

[wannabee]

The recent activity on this thread raised my interest so I checked out the original Bloomberg article that MacRumours quoted. Apparently the 14 year old was assisted with the study by her father who is a cardiac electrophysiologist. They said 30% of the 26 patients tested had their defibrillator triggered to "Magnet mode" by the iPad covers.

An Apple officer declined to comment and directed attention to the iPad safety instructions which cautions users about radio frequency interference, suggests that patients with pacemakers keep the iPad at least six inches away and says they should be turned off in health-care facilities when instructed by staff or posted signs.

Maybe the sign should read "All care taken but no responsibility accepted"

EDIT: Without searching the safety instructions the quote above seems to refer to RF not magnets.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by wannabee

The recent activity on this thread raised my interest so I checked out the original Bloomberg article that MacRumours quoted. Apparently the 14 year old was assisted with the study by her father who is a cardiac electrophysiologist. They said 30% of the 26 patients tested had their defibrillator triggered to "Magnet mode" by the iPad covers.

An Apple officer declined to comment and directed attention to the iPad safety instructions which cautions users about radio frequency interference, suggests that patients with pacemakers keep the iPad at least six inches away and says they should be turned off in health-care facilities when instructed by staff or posted signs.

Maybe the sign should read "All care taken but no responsibility accepted"

EDIT: Without searching the safety instructions the quote above seems to refer to RF not magnets.

iPad user guide

Medical devices iPad contains radios that emit electromagnetic fields. These electromagnetic fields may interfere with pacemakers or other medical devices. If you wear a pacemaker, maintain at least 6 inches (approximately 15 cm) of separation between your pacemaker and iPad. If you suspect iPad is interfering with your pacemaker or any other medical device, stop using iPad and consult your physician for information specific to your medical device. iPad has magnets along the left edge of the device and on the right side of the front glass, which may interfere with pacemakers, defibrillators, or other medical devices. The iPad Smart Cover and iPad Smart Case also contain magnets. Maintain at least 6 inches (approximately 15 cm) of separation between your pacemaker or defibrillator and iPad, the iPad Smart Cover, or the iPad Smart Case.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I don't think that paranoia mixes well with heart problems. I take it your friend doesn't get near people that have phones, mp3 players, etc.

How many magnets do the Nexus7 and the cover have?
ifixit did a teardown of the iPad cover:
snip...

This question was asked in 2011 on the Apple website:
as the i pad 2 has magnets in it can you use it if you have a pacemaker
The replies:

Well I don't know about you but I don't go around hugging the entire human race, the only person regularly within a few inches of me would be my wife and maybe a hug from family and close friends... definitely not laying across my chest fo any length of time... well wife excepted but she isn't personally ferro-magnetic...

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Well I don't know about you but I don't go around hugging the entire human race, the only person regularly within a few inches of me would be my wife and maybe a hug from family and close friends... definitely not laying across my chest fo any length of time... well wife excepted but she isn't personally ferro-magnetic...

I've been on crowded buses and trains that got me close to strangers. Occasionally people have bumped into me, and I've bumped into people walking in supermarkets. Should I expect that someone might accuse me of trying to kill them with my phone if I bump into them?

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I've been on crowded buses and trains that got me close to strangers. Occasionally people have bumped into me, and I've bumped into people walking in supermarkets. Should I expect that someone might accuse me of trying to kill them with my phone if I bump into them?

Don't see why not, after all, all those nasty microwaves are out to get you...

From what I've read and discussed with my implanted friend, casual contact is not (or extremely unlikely) to cause a problem unless a very powerful magnetic field involved hence the point about going to sleep with the magnets resting on your chest... mind you, the only time I dozed off with an iPad, the magnets were on the right of my chest and the cover magnets folded back behind the iPad... my friend with the defib says he's far more concerned about getting hit by a passing meteorite than magnets causing problems, guess you choose your own worries and try to use a little informed common sense.

I do know that if I had a device implanted to keep me alive then I damn sure would pay attention to any instructions/warnings about usage and proceed accordingly - it's called risk management.

I know that ebola is generally lethal but I don't spend time worrying about it but I also know that cars are bigger and harder than me so I pay attention when crossing the road - pay attention to what counts and note anything else that might need a little attention - life's too short... especially with a junk yard car-lifting electromagnet resting on my chest...

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by elcreative

From what I've read and discussed with my implanted friend, casual contact is not (or extremely unlikely) to cause a problem unless a very powerful magnetic field involved hence the point about going to sleep with the magnets resting on your chest...

And even with the iPad resting on their chests 70% of the test subjects had no problem.

I think that the important thing that comes out of this is the advice that medical professionals are going to give. As I pointed out, in 2011 they were saying that it is safe.