iPad iPad & Comics

[Fotoman]

Originally Posted by joblack

The display has a response time greater than 20 ms (source: c't magazine, 11/2010)- seems to be the cheapest hardware Apple could find. For games and action movies it's not usable and to be specific: all LCD displays aren't really capable for long term e-book reading.

IPS LCD panel the cheapest? Nah, that would be the 7-bit TN Panels popular with gamers due to their superior refresh rate...Too bad about their craptastic color fidelity that makes them useless for photo editing. Take a look at the type of panel in the highest quality LCD monitors... IPS? Usually. PVA? Sometimes. TN? Never.

Not capable of long-term e-book reading? Just what orifice are you pulling this stuff out from?

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by Fotoman

Not capable of long-term e-book reading? Just what orifice are you pulling this stuff out from?

ahh. it's pretty much the eink lovers/lcd hater crowd. anything that doesn't come down from the heavens with holy eink they automatically hate without even seeing it. i wonder what they did before eink, i wonder what they'll do when it's gone. they wouldn't know what the effect of long-term lcd screen is because they don't bother to use one (except for a computer screen for 8 hours followed by a few hours of tv at home, go figure).

there hasn't been a single study that showed one is better than the other, a few showing that neither is better than the other, and plenty stating that staring at any screen for too long causes eye strain.

i liked my sony 600 a lot, but it had horrible contrast, was difficult to see in low-lighting, only 8 shades of grey, a glacially slow refresh rate, and ghosting issues. it was amazing the one time i sat out at noon in full sunlight and read during lunch. it was horrible when i would read in bed at night trying to adjust the room and/or book light to see the screen without any reflection. i would get strain from having to hold it in some awkward position or from the poor contrast. can't always read at noon! for me, a lcd screen, with its own lighting, is 100 times better since i do 99% of my reading indoors anyway. screen reflects are just a slight tilt to get rid of and my ambient lighting is no where near as critical.

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Hm, have you played with an iPad?

The brightness doesn't really go down enough for long-term reading in a darker room. For instance, even with the brightness all the way down, the Kindle app screen is still a bit too bright. Same with iBooks, which at least has built-in brightness option.

I don't think the screen is bad at all, although for many avid readers e-ink may be a better option.

I haven't "played" with an iPad. I OWN an ipad and have read a few newspapers, couple of magazines, several books, dozens of comics and hundreds of manga with my iPad already. During nights, but also in the sun.

The auto-brightness adjust the brightness enough to make the ipad perfectly readable in direct sunlight.

And the dimming is strong enough to have the screen dimmed more than enough for nighttime reading.

The iPad has replaced my sony readers. Especially when my purchased books can be transferred to the ipad after drm-removal. No more "formatting" for minutes when opening a new book, or changing fontsize. High-contrast. And easy transfer.

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by Sonist

That's great, but the need for a transferable, open format like PDF or EPUB is paramount.

If you have to repurchase everything every time you buy a new device, digital is not worth much.

There's nothing more open than a zipped folder with images in it. Pretty sure it's possible to read those a few centuries from now.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by scottjl

there hasn't been a single study that showed one is better than the other, a few showing that neither is better than the other, and plenty stating that staring at any screen for too long causes eye strain.

Not true, here is a paper from Dr. Guido Schryen (RWTH Aachen )about the topic (use google translate)

Part of the abstract:

Advantages over traditional technologies like LCD displays include lower
production costs (lower process costs as well as lower material costs) and lower weight.Furthermore a better readability emerges because of better reflection, contrast, and larger viewing angles.


http://www-users.rwth-aachen.de/guid...informatik.pdf

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by athlonkmf

There's nothing more open than a zipped folder with images in it. Pretty sure it's possible to read those a few centuries from now.

Sadly the requirement from companies would be an open format that they can readily apply drm to, meaning that cbr/cbz files probably wouldn't suit them, but in that case couldn't epub work just as well for them?

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by joblack

Not true, here is a paper from Dr. Guido Schryen (RWTH Aachen )about the topic (use google translate)

well congrats on finding something, but that paper still reads more like an opinion piece than real research. there was no actual study done with a control and test group measuring reading time and reported eye fatigue for example. he just discusses eink technology and makes claims it is better.

[Sischa]

I like my iPad but it would never bring me to the point where i will show up on a forum and i.e. tell people that it is so mega super nice to read in direct sunlight. Are your really still rational?

Its like a stupid damn mirror in direct sunlight. Everybody who wants to pretend the opposite seems just a little bit "fanatic" in my eyes (or maybe lives in Forks and don't really knows what "sunny" means )

Good thing is that everybody can have its own opinion and i am happy with beleaving my ophthalmologist who is telling since years that constantly reading on a shining source could damage and hurt the eyes, especially if you already have i.e. a astigmatism. For me that and my own experience count more then some strange studies paid by whom?

I don't know but funny thing is that all this new "experiences" show up when the iPad was announced as an "reading" device by Jobs.

[athlonkmf]

Originally Posted by Sischa

I like my iPad but it would never bring me to the point where i will show up on a forum and i.e. tell people that it is so mega super nice to read in direct sunlight. Are your really still rational?

Its like a stupid damn mirror in direct sunlight.

Well, I sat on the balcony with my ipad and sony reader in full sunlight, and it was perfectly readable.
I of course am not holding it at an angle where the sunlight will be reflected in my face. A fix of a few degrees. The same way as I'd hold my sony reader, because that thing reflects sunlight too.
Which is quite natural position as I'd lay back in my seat. And if you lay back, the sun will never reflect on your screen.

The thing is, when in bright sunlight, eink will look washed out= less contrast. The ipad raises it's brightness (you can actually see it increase it's brightness), the contrast remains the same and it's perfectly readable.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sonist

You tell'em, Scottie!

How dare anyone complain about anything relating to the iPad, or disagree with you?!

Ask them to leave this forum, now!

And wave that "Troll" sign at them, for good measure!

You da Big Geezah and you squash dem li'le whiners!

This is not an iPad issue. It's yet another stupid LCD vs eink argument. What we choose is personal preferences.

And Joblack, you'll have to toss out your computer since it has an LCD monitor and your LCD TV will have to go as well.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by scottjl

well congrats on finding something, but that paper still reads more like an opinion piece than real research. there was no actual study done with a control and test group measuring reading time and reported eye fatigue for example. he just discusses eink technology and makes claims it is better.

LOL - I see you have earned your Apple Fanboy classification and no objective argument can change your opinion.

Well, so be it.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And Joblack, you'll have to toss out your computer since it has an LCD monitor and your LCD TV will have to go as well.

I'm working on my 28" LCD monitor for 8 hours a day. I know the difference between reading e-books on an LCD and an e-ink device.

I would kick my monitor if there were eink displays in that size available. So the LCD monitor is a must on the pc world but for small 'pad' devices there are better alternatives than outdated LCD technique.

[Kirtai]

Is it wrong of me to be amused at seeing this argument again when the original subject was comics which are usually colour graphics?

Let's face it, even if eInk was the best ever possible display for text, if you need to display colour today, it's not even a contender.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by joblack

LOL - I see you have earned your Apple Fanboy classification and no objective argument can change your opinion.

Well, so be it.

shrug. is there supposed to be some stigmata with appreciating apple products? i've used their products since the 70's. i've also used ibm, dell, hp, microsoft, sony, nokia, motorola and dozens of other companies.

no objective argument? well then how about finding some research that actually includes scientific research as opposed to a fluffy opinion piece then? sure, the author includes all sorts of technical details about how eInk works, but we all know that.

just so you know, most scientific research regarding health-related issues usually includes a test group (subjects using the new style, say LCD screens in this test) and a control group (subjects using the existing style, say eInk screens in this test). you have them both perform identical tasks and then survey the results (ask the subjects about their eye fatigue). that paper you linked to doesn't include anything even remotely like that. so how is it any sort of valid research document?

as jswolf said, this is an off-topic, boring eink-vs-lcd debate.. and i guess that makes you an "eink fanboy"

and as kirtai points out, color eink isn't even an option today. maybe in 5 years time something will be available. i think by then we'll all be on oled. i'm sure you'll complain about those screens burning your retinas as well.

[WillAdams]

Sunlight display is not a universal problem for LCDs --- there're certain models, e.g., transflective which work just fine in sunlight --- it's unfortunate that wasn't an option for the iPad.