Could lack of piracy be the e-book's demise?

[stezza]

It's not about piracy, it's about collections.

The iPod and iTunes made it very easy for a music lover to convert all their music on cds into iTunes and the iPod. If they took the time, they could have their beloved cd collection on the ipod for no extra cost. That's the key.

Let's face it, the core demographic of the Kindle is avid readers. Readers who most likely have thousends of books in their collections. Just like I do. The downfall of the Kindle is that they have NO WAY of transferring their already loved collection onto the machine.

You want me to pay $400 for the Kindle and then $10 for each book?? I already have the book on my shelves. Why would I *buy* it again?

That's not to say you can't buy the Kindle and start a new collection, or repurchase your favorite books at $10 all over again, but that would soon add up to mega bucks and no one will do that.

The key with the iPod was you lost nothing, and didn't have to pay for your collection again. Imagine if Apple released the iPod and then said, "Sorry, you have to pay for your whole cd collection again at $10 a cd." You think it would've taken off like it did? Of course not.

Kindle is handicapped by the fact there is NO WAY to transfer your collection from the shelf to the machine. That's not Amazon's fault, it's just the way it is. If Amazon offered something that allowed my whole collection to be transferred into the Kindle for no more than the $400 purchase price, I'd buy one immediately.

Until then, I'm sticking with the books I've already purchased and lovingly have on my shelves...I sure as hell won't be buying them again.

Steve

[Lemurion]

I like paying for the books I read. I get paid for writing, other people should too.

I haven't bought any of Michael McCollum's eBooks - but I read most of his books when they came out in paperback.

[rcuadro]

Stezza puts forth an excellent argument that I feel hit the nail right on the head. I do not re-read books so there is no sense in me re-purchasing the ones I already have.

I dont think that piracy has anything to do with anything when it comes to ebooks. Lets face it... you can find books out there. The formatting may be a jacked but you can still read them...

It has been mentioned before that anyone can sit there and listen to music... not everyone can sit there and read. Well, let me take that back. Anyone can do it, they just dont. It is much easier to sit there and watch TV, play video games, or listen to music... and I think that is one of the big challenges.

Not to mention that is irritates me to see that the price of an ebook is the same (or almos the same) as a paperback. What is the point or paying almost $400 for a device that is primarily used to read and does nothing else and then I am to pay for ebooks almost the same amount as my neighbor does for hers. (I know you can listen to MP3's but lets face it, an iPod is much easier, more portable, and cheaper)

Also... the new Kindle has store about 1500 book according to Amazon. So, at $10 per book (for new releases) it would cost you $15,000 to fill the kindle! I think they are banking on people either having a large collection of books or them getting them by "other" means. Hell, look at the iPod. 120 gigs!?!? That would cost a fortune to fill it with legit music/movies.

My $0.02
-Rob

[GlennD]

I agree with Stezza - when MP3s were starting to become popular, even before Napster hit the scene, it was because the tools to transfer your CD collection to MP3 format were easily accessible and free. People were trading files they had created, not ones they had bought.

Most of the people who do read "privately scanned" e-books are not trading them, they're just downloading them. There just isn't a simple way to transfer the books you own to an electronic format. If there were, book piracy would be as rampant as music and movie piracy, I suspect.

And legally speaking it's pretty grey too - does a consumer have the right to format shift a paper book into a scanned one (not talking copying for someone else here, just the actual content shift)? Courts in the US have been pretty friendly to consumers with format shifting music (LP->cassette as well as CD->MP3). I'm not aware of any legal cases involving book copying though.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Maybe (and this is just a thought) people actually like their authors and want to see them get paid. Musicians who are popular are obscenely wealthy so no one pities them. Not a lot of authors actually make that much money. I would never pirate books for that reason.

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

that is a good point, but there are some obscenely wealthy writers as well (JK Rowling, anyone ?), and just like in writing there are plenty of struggling musicians. i imagine there is a class of very successful writers who are the equivalent of the obscenely rich rock star (not just Rowling). i agree with you that it's important to support authors by buying their works however more and more of them seem to be embracing p2p as a way of gaining readers and exposure ; a form of free, viral advertising of a sort. many of them argue that it's actually beneficial to them (including via increased sales) to have their work distributed for free in those networks because otherwise a lot of people probably would never even know who they are.

I think it's the same with the music industry as in the book industry. People have less problems "stealing" from a superwealthy artist than an obscure artist.

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

i'm curious about just how widespread the phenomenon of "pirated" ebooks is though. outside of the obvious sources i don't know where they are hiding, but people seem to think they are everywhere... maybe i should do some research. in the name of science, obviously.

There are whole newsgroups dedicated to ebooks. The whole reason for me to go to those groups is to find those books that aren't available to me for download by legal channels. Or because I'm lazy and don't want to scan all my pbooks myself...

[ErwinOtten]

Since we are talking about piracy I must admit that the three books by Joe Abercrombie I'm reading are illegal downloads as well.

There are some reasons I've done that, being:

1. There is just NO legal e-book available
2. After reading all the good reviews I really wanted to read the books and I just won't buy paper books anymore.
3. The copies I have are extremely well edited, just as good (or even better ) as the books found here. It is obviously the work of a real fan.

Bottom-line, would Joe have had his books out as e-books then I would have bought them legally. Since that is not possible I had to refer to other means.

After all, you just have to be realistic about that.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by ErwinOtten

Since we are talking about piracy I must admit that the three books by Joe Abercrombie I'm reading are illegal downloads as well.

There are some reasons I've done that, being:

1. There is just NO legal e-book available
2. After reading all the good reviews I really wanted to read the books and I just won't buy paper books anymore.
3. The copies I have are extremely well edited, just as good (or even better ) as the books found here. It is obviously the work of a real fan.

Bottom-line, would Joe have had his books out as e-books then I would have bought them legally. Since that is not possible I had to refer to other means.

After all, you just have to be realistic about that.

Joe Abercrombie has said that if he had his way the ebook version of his books would be released immediately to the kindle store and other places. But its not up to him, its up to the publisher, of when they want to release a title. He also says its in the works to have the books released legally some time this year.

[SpiderMatt]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Maybe (and this is just a thought) people actually like their authors and want to see them get paid. Musicians who are popular are obscenely wealthy so no one pities them. Not a lot of authors actually make that much money. I would never pirate books for that reason.

Most musicians are not "obscenely wealthy." I know and have talked with multiple indie bands and some are lucky enough to make it just big enough to be able to make a living off of music. That's just living a comfortable, middle-class lifestyle. Many indie bands don't even make it to the point where they're able to quit their "day job." But one thing that has really helped many indie artists take off this last decade is sharing music on the internet. The human desire to share new things that people like has brought more than a few indie artists into the wider public view. For this reason, I don't know any indie musicians that shun sharing music online. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just don't know any. And this is because it leads to increased awareness, which then leads to increased sales. Let's not forget, when people live as comfortably as we in developed countries do, people will pay for convenience and become more susceptible to impulsive buying.

Piracy is not going to hurt the market for literature. I'm also certain that the desire to own paper books will never go away. I think that for fiction, e-books will become more like the dime novels of old. People will purchase them if it's fluff they want to devour quickly. For books people particularly love, I'm sure there will always be a market for bound copies.

[Jellby]

Music is listened to again and again. If you like a song, you listened to it every day or every week... you play the same songs at every party, etc.

Books are often read only once. If you like a book you may want to re-read it again after a couple of years, but more likely you'd like to read more books of the same author or same style... It's quite different from music.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I like paying for the books I read. I get paid for writing, other people should too.

That would be a new good business model. After you have read the book you pay for it. What I have problem with for ebooks is paying for the possibility to maybe read the book sometimes in the future. For paper books that is not a problem since you have the physical item and have some use for it and you can lend it to friends even if you do not read the book yourself.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by tompe

That would be a new good business model. After you have read the book you pay for it. What I have problem with for ebooks is paying for the possibility to maybe read the book sometimes in the future. For paper books that is not a problem since you have the physical item and have some use for it and you can lend it to friends even if you do not read the book yourself.

I don't mind paying for a book now for the potential to read it later. I don't finish all the books I start, and I have DVDs I bought two or three years ago that I haven't seen yet.

I buy content for two reasons: to gain later access, and to support the creators.

I don't own a single DVD I could not have pirated. I chose not to pirate them because it doesn't help the creators.

[Barcey]

The business models between digital books and digital music are similar but the market potential is not the same. People have to stop basing the success of ebook readers on the success of the iPod. It's like basing the success of motorcycles on the market penetration of cars. There is a viable market for them but you're never going to get the same percentage of the population.

I do agree that the publishers aren't seeing the same urgency to react but it's just delaying it, not killing it.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I buy content for two reasons: to gain later access, and to support the creators.

I don't own a single DVD I could not have pirated. I chose not to pirate them because it doesn't help the creators.

I buy for two reasons, to feel good and to support the creators. I download for one reason: the unavailability of an official bought copy. I've downloaded some books where I later bought the official version, as soon as it came out.


There's one big difference between pbooks and ebooks. If I have a pbook and I don't like it, I can sell it. There are plenty of shops that will take second hand books (often a good place to stop when I'm in town, especially after christmas ). I don't know one shop that will take second-hand ebooks...

[yagiz]

Originally Posted by stezza

You want me to pay $400 for the Kindle and then $10 for each book?? I already have the book on my shelves. Why would I *buy* it again?

Hmmm... Could there be a market for Amazon here? "Buy a Kindle, return us your old books and you can download their e-book versions"... I wonder whether that would work...

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by SpiderMatt

Most musicians are not "obscenely wealthy." I know and have talked with multiple indie bands and some are lucky enough to make it just big enough to be able to make a living off of music. That's just living a comfortable, middle-class lifestyle. Many indie bands don't even make it to the point where they're able to quit their "day job." But one thing that has really helped many indie artists take off this last decade is sharing music on the internet. The human desire to share new things that people like has brought more than a few indie artists into the wider public view. For this reason, I don't know any indie musicians that shun sharing music online. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just don't know any. And this is because it leads to increased awareness, which then leads to increased sales. Let's not forget, when people live as comfortably as we in developed countries do, people will pay for convenience and become more susceptible to impulsive buying.

Piracy is not going to hurt the market for literature. I'm also certain that the desire to own paper books will never go away. I think that for fiction, e-books will become more like the dime novels of old. People will purchase them if it's fluff they want to devour quickly. For books people particularly love, I'm sure there will always be a market for bound copies.

I meant most of the artists on the radio. I know a majority of the bands out there in the world make very little money.