DRM'd books

latchkeyed · 04-02-2009, 11:19 AM

Anyone interested in e-book DRM might enjoy the April 1st bkrpr blog post entitled:

"Universal e-book DRM exploit discovered!"

http://bkrpr.org/blog/?p=46

delphidb96 · 04-02-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latchkeyed

Anyone interested in e-book DRM might enjoy the April 1st bkrpr blog post entitled:

"Universal e-book DRM exploit discovered!"

http://bkrpr.org/blog/?p=46

Like...

Oh wow! He's got a point, he does.

Which means if one can only find Sony .lrx/.lrf versions of an ebook, or Kindle, then one only has to buy a used device and run the ebooks through BKRPR. What a thought...

Derek

phenomshel · 04-02-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Like...

Oh wow! He's got a point, he does.

Which means if one can only find Sony .lrx/.lrf versions of an ebook, or Kindle, then one only has to buy a used device and run the ebooks through BKRPR. What a thought...

Derek

I already got there - at least part way - with thinking of buying a used Kindle 1 expressly to access Amazon's selection, and use my EZ Reader for everything else. However, they're still expensive.

Liviu_5 · 04-02-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenomshel

I already got there - at least part way - with thinking of buying a used Kindle 1 expressly to access Amazon's selection, and use my EZ Reader for everything else. However, they're still expensive.

You need a used iTouch and they are way cheaper

phenomshel · 04-02-2009, 07:04 PM

hmmmmm that IS an avenue I didn't think to explore... thanks

TheJohnNewton · 04-02-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

You need a used iTouch and they are way cheaper

Will an iTouch (or any non-reflective screen) scan?

Liviu_5 · 04-02-2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJohnNewton

Will an iTouch (or any non-reflective screen) scan?

What for? You can easily get Kindle books on your PC from the Touch - trivial if you take 10 minutes and jailbreak it following Google instructions, or using extractor scripts otherwise - and unless they are topaz, convert them with the "usual" following Igor's blog which again is found with Google.

phenomshel · 04-03-2009, 01:15 AM

I see what he's getting at. To run it through bkrpr you would need to be able to scan it. Or at least be able to take a good quality picture of the screen without glare. That's the only way to avoid the "unless they are Topaz" issue. I have no conscience issues with format shifting anything I buy for my personal use on my PC or another device. And since I don't trust Amazon any further than I can throw them, I won't buy anything I can't format shift into a more archival format and have backups. It's been theorized that Topaz hasn't been hacked not because it's invulnerable, but because it isn't seen as widespread enough to warrant the effort. I'm not enough of a hacker/coder to know if that's true or not, and I don't know if I'm willing to take the chance that Amazon won't make Topaz their main format, it turns out to be uncrackable, and then I'd end up with a bunch of books I can only read on an iPod Touch. Plus be stuck having to trust Amazon that if that hard drive on the iPod fails that I can get to them later.

Robotech_Master · 04-03-2009, 06:32 AM

FYI: The iPod Touch doesn't use a hard drive (the way the older, thicker iPods do); it uses flash memory. Much less prone to failure.

Liviu_5 · 04-03-2009, 10:45 AM

If you are in the US - and to buy Kindle books you basically need to be, unless you use various work-arounds with the iTouch reported by overseas people in various threads - what's the point of buying ebooks from Kindle to scan (???) when you can always get an used print copy cheaper if you wait as little as a month. I would understand for someone overseas to avoid expensive shipping on print, but with a Kindle you won't be able to buy there from the Amazon store anyway. I still do not see the point.

Regarding Topaz - it's irrelevant what Amazon will do later, right now prc is their main format however they name it, so for now iTouch + usual works.

If you are concerned about 5 years down the line, nothing is guaranteed so better stick with print and bkrpr since that will work for sure

phenomshel · 04-03-2009, 01:09 PM

Ah, but you can't always get a used print copy cheaper. Believe me, I've tried in some cases. Being in a rural area probably does not help with that.
I am concerned about five years down the road, too. I lost one darn fine physical collection of books due to a divorce and a move, and no money to ship them. I went with ebooks to rebuild that collection so I'd never be in that position again. I want a way to archive/back up my collection at my discretion so that I never have to worry about that again. Being able to keep a copy in .rtf on my computer, and backed up to disc alleviates that concern, which is exactly why I'm so adamant about not being locked into one format, and one copy of any particular book. I don't trust Amazon or anyone else to store my material where I can retrieve it five or ten years down the line.
I've already found one book that I really wanted in Topaz format. It's only available at Amazon, and it's the first in a series. I've written the publisher, I've written the author. I finally got a response from the publisher, but it was basically a whine about how they can't do everything at once. Highly unsatisfactory.
I do realize if I hang on and wait, a lot more things will become available. I've never been much on patience, though...

I do agree, though, that the limited number of books I will find (at least at the present time) that are only available at Amazon (because if they're available anywhere else I won't be getting them from Amazon) that are also Topaz would probably be a distinct minority.
I also realize that this is a decision I alone can make, but I do appreciate y'all letting me rant and get my thoughts in order here in public.

AnemicOak · 04-03-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenomshel

I do realize if I hang on and wait, a lot more things will become available. I've never been much on patience, though...

Patience, what's that?

You could always scan yourself a copy of the book you want from a pbook copy. I'm doing that right now for a book I'm fairly convinced will not be getting an ebook release, at least not in the next few years (ebooks aren't even on the publishers radar). I'm actually surprised how easy it is and how far OCR technology has come since I last tried it years ago.

phenomshel · 04-03-2009, 02:25 PM

*laughing*
Brian, stop reading my mind. I just finished scanning a copy of the Topaz formatted book that I wanted from Amazon. The OCR I used probably left a lot to be desired, as it came with the HP scanner I'm using. But even at that, OCR has improved greatly since the last time I tried it, which was about six years ago. It took me two days of six hour scanning sessions to get it scanned, now I'm going back and proofing. It's funny, the OCR did one side of the book perfectly, and the other side has all the funky errors. But it's not as bad as I thought.

However - I'm holding out a lot of hope that some of the books I want that are out of print will eventually show up on Google books. Depends on if I can hold out long enough for them to get the details of that settlement hashed out. I'm pretty sure these won't be getting an ebook release either, as the author died in 2005 and they probably wouldn't make the publisher much money. But I loved them and would like to have them again (I had physical copies of everything this lady wrote before I left Texas - they got left behind in the great divorce fiasco).

pilotbob · 04-03-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenomshel

It took me two days of six hour scanning sessions to get it scanned, now I'm going back and proofing.

Wow, spending 12 hours to scan a book you could buy for $9.99 (or so) seems like alot of time. Could you not perhaps find it "online", if you know what I mean, wink wink.

PIRACY IS WRONG!

BOb

phenomshel · 04-03-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Wow, spending 12 hours to scan a book you could buy for $9.99 (or so) seems like alot of time. Could you not perhaps find it "online", if you know what I mean, wink wink.

PIRACY IS WRONG!

BOb

No, it isn't available "online" anywhere, except at Amazon, and it's Topaz DRM'd. Not even "illegitimately" is it available. The only way for me to get this particular book in electronic format was to scan it myself, which is what I did.

From my experience with the darknet, I think the piracy issue is overstated, at least in the case of the mystery series that I like to read. When I've gotten desperate enough to look there, I've had little to NO luck finding anything.
Now if I was into contemporary paranormal romance....

, it'd be a different story.

ETA: not that there's anything wrong with contemporary paranormal romance, mind you...

04-02-2009, 11:19 AM	#1
latchkeyed Member Posts: 20 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Cybook Gen3	DRM'd books Anyone interested in e-book DRM might enjoy the April 1st bkrpr blog post entitled: "Universal e-book DRM exploit discovered!" http://bkrpr.org/blog/?p=46

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04-02-2009, 07:04 PM	#5
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	hmmmmm that IS an avenue I didn't think to explore... thanks

04-03-2009, 01:15 AM	#8
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	I see what he's getting at. To run it through bkrpr you would need to be able to scan it. Or at least be able to take a good quality picture of the screen without glare. That's the only way to avoid the "unless they are Topaz" issue. I have no conscience issues with format shifting anything I buy for my personal use on my PC or another device. And since I don't trust Amazon any further than I can throw them, I won't buy anything I can't format shift into a more archival format and have backups. It's been theorized that Topaz hasn't been hacked not because it's invulnerable, but because it isn't seen as widespread enough to warrant the effort. I'm not enough of a hacker/coder to know if that's true or not, and I don't know if I'm willing to take the chance that Amazon won't make Topaz their main format, it turns out to be uncrackable, and then I'd end up with a bunch of books I can only read on an iPod Touch. Plus be stuck having to trust Amazon that if that hard drive on the iPod fails that I can get to them later.

04-03-2009, 06:32 AM	#9
Robotech_Master Fanatic Posts: 514 Karma: 2954711 Join Date: May 2006	FYI: The iPod Touch doesn't use a hard drive (the way the older, thicker iPods do); it uses flash memory. Much less prone to failure.

04-03-2009, 10:45 AM	#10
Liviu_5 Books and more books Posts: 917 Karma: 69499 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: White Plains, NY, USA Device: Nook Color, Itouch, Nokia770, Sony 650, Sony 700(dead), Ebk(given)	If you are in the US - and to buy Kindle books you basically need to be, unless you use various work-arounds with the iTouch reported by overseas people in various threads - what's the point of buying ebooks from Kindle to scan (???) when you can always get an used print copy cheaper if you wait as little as a month. I would understand for someone overseas to avoid expensive shipping on print, but with a Kindle you won't be able to buy there from the Amazon store anyway. I still do not see the point. Regarding Topaz - it's irrelevant what Amazon will do later, right now prc is their main format however they name it, so for now iTouch + usual works. If you are concerned about 5 years down the line, nothing is guaranteed so better stick with print and bkrpr since that will work for sure

04-03-2009, 01:09 PM	#11
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	Ah, but you can't always get a used print copy cheaper. Believe me, I've tried in some cases. Being in a rural area probably does not help with that. I am concerned about five years down the road, too. I lost one darn fine physical collection of books due to a divorce and a move, and no money to ship them. I went with ebooks to rebuild that collection so I'd never be in that position again. I want a way to archive/back up my collection at my discretion so that I never have to worry about that again. Being able to keep a copy in .rtf on my computer, and backed up to disc alleviates that concern, which is exactly why I'm so adamant about not being locked into one format, and one copy of any particular book. I don't trust Amazon or anyone else to store my material where I can retrieve it five or ten years down the line. I've already found one book that I really wanted in Topaz format. It's only available at Amazon, and it's the first in a series. I've written the publisher, I've written the author. I finally got a response from the publisher, but it was basically a whine about how they can't do everything at once. Highly unsatisfactory. I do realize if I hang on and wait, a lot more things will become available. I've never been much on patience, though... I do agree, though, that the limited number of books I will find (at least at the present time) that are only available at Amazon (because if they're available anywhere else I won't be getting them from Amazon) that are also Topaz would probably be a distinct minority. I also realize that this is a decision I alone can make, but I do appreciate y'all letting me rant and get my thoughts in order here in public.

04-03-2009, 02:25 PM	#13
phenomshel ZCD BombShel Posts: 4,793 Karma: 8293322 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: The Frozen North (aka Illinois, USA) Device: iPad, STB Kindle Oasis	laughing Brian, stop reading my mind. I just finished scanning a copy of the Topaz formatted book that I wanted from Amazon. The OCR I used probably left a lot to be desired, as it came with the HP scanner I'm using. But even at that, OCR has improved greatly since the last time I tried it, which was about six years ago. It took me two days of six hour scanning sessions to get it scanned, now I'm going back and proofing. It's funny, the OCR did one side of the book perfectly, and the other side has all the funky errors. But it's not as bad as I thought. However - I'm holding out a lot of hope that some of the books I want that are out of print will eventually show up on Google books. Depends on if I can hold out long enough for them to get the details of that settlement hashed out. I'm pretty sure these won't be getting an ebook release either, as the author died in 2005 and they probably wouldn't make the publisher much money. But I loved them and would like to have them again (I had physical copies of everything this lady wrote before I left Texas - they got left behind in the great divorce fiasco).