$329 for ipad mini

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by ApK

And calling Amazon's ebook format "useless" (or "obsolete" as other have called it) shows an utter disregard for either reality or the meaning of words, since the Amazon format is still hugely popular and successful, and in practical terms, every bit as usable as epub.

What I can't fathom are crowd-dependent populists who pretend they're activists.

No one cares who likes or doesn't like Apple or Amazon. It doesn't matter how many people think either company or their special format is swell. You're not talking about a platform, you're yelling at your parents. Meanwhile, Amazon tablets pump ads in people's faces and harass us to play in their store. Every news article points this out, even the ones that favor the Kindle Fire. If that's what you and your vast Amazon posse like, sobeit. But a lot of us have specific uses for software and environments which the majority will never have despite the popularity of either platform.

Really, do I show up on Kindle Fire forums and pollute every thread with the same sophmoric statements? Mobile Read should have a Pointless Argument Forum so that people like yourself can have tough-offs with others who live to advocate their favorite hardware companies.

Meanwhile, Apple, Google and Amazon aren't paying any of us. It all comes down to individual use and function.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

What I can't fathom are crowd-dependent populists who pretend they're activists.

No one cares who likes or doesn't like Apple or Amazon. It doesn't matter how many people think either company or their special format is swell. You're not talking about a platform, you're yelling at your parents. Meanwhile, Amazon tablets pump ads in people's faces and harass us to play in their store. Every news article points this out, even the ones that favor the Kindle Fire. If that's what you and your vast Amazon posse like, sobeit. But a lot of us have specific uses for software and environments which the majority will never have despite the popularity of either platform.

Really, do I show up on Kindle Fire forums and pollute every thread with the same sophmoric statements? Mobile Read should have a Pointless Argument Forum so that people like yourself can have tough-offs with others who live to advocate their favorite hardware companies.

Meanwhile, Apple, Google and Amazon aren't paying any of us. It all comes down to individual use and function.

Man, that was a lot of words just to say you have no defense for your position.

Meanwhile, Amazon tablets pump ads in people's faces and harass us to play in their store.

Amazon effectively pays people to see those adds by charging so much less for the device. Ad subsidies are hardly unique to Amazon (see, for example, every free app in the Apple app store), and, again, has nothing to do with side loading or restricted platforms which is what we were talking about.
And "harass?" Again, a seeming ignorance of the meaning of word, since there is no harassment, just a well integrated store, which OBVIOUSLY they'd like you to shop in. And you are comparing this to the Apple App Store? Sure, they don't harass, they simply give you NO OTHER OPTION.

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Really, do I show up on Kindle Fire forums and pollute every thread with the same sophmoric statements?

You do realize this is the News forum, not the Apple forum, right?

By the way, I might add I think the Mini will be a success, and sounds like a pretty good product. I think Apple is way over priced and way too restrictive in an Evil sort of way, but the stuff is usually well built, and if the Mini performs even as well as an iPad2, it will indeed be smoother and more fluid than the comparable cheaper stuff. Plus, there is value in a controlled walled-garden for the average non-techie consumer.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

A lot of music software -- particularly softsynth, module and notation software -- is better on a touch screen than a keyboard, and the original workstations of the '80s bear this out. The majority of professional software that works best on a tablet is in the Apple library, therefore Apple tablets become more useful than the rest for musicians regardless of specs.

I don't think many would question the sanity of someone who paid a premium price for lesser specs if the aim was to use software not available on another platform. In your case, the preference for iOS appears to be logical based on what you are saying here.

But for a vast majority of tablet users, their needs are pretty basic -- ie, ebooks, movies, music, Netflix, games, email, facebook, web surfing, etc -- and can be met equally well by either the iOS or Android platform. For these people, choosing the iPad Mini might raise questions as to their sanity. Do they do it just for the supposed prestige of flashing an Apple product? If so, they also risk looking like a total tech ignoramus or newb ... slaves to fashion.

As for functions/features that are superior on one platform, it should be mentioned that third-party reading apps are much much better on android than on iOS. So a serious reader might be better off going with android for that very reason alone.

On many android tablets, you can also get GPS functionality without wi-fi or 3G. You can't get that with iOS, afaik.

--Pat

[bugjd]

Originally Posted by PatNY

I don't think many would question the sanity of someone who paid a premium price for lesser specs if the aim was to use software not available on another platform. In your case, the preference for iOS appears to be logical based on what you are saying here.

But for a vast majority of tablet users, their needs are pretty basic -- ie, ebooks, movies, music, Netflix, games, email, facebook, web surfing, etc -- and can be met equally well by either the iOS or Android platform. For these people, choosing the iPad Mini might raise questions as to their sanity. Do they do it just for the supposed prestige of flashing an Apple product? If so, they also risk looking like a total tech ignoramus or newb ... slaves to fashion.

As for functions/features that are superior on one platform, it should be mentioned that third-party reading apps are much much better on android than on iOS. So a serious reader might be better off going with android for that very reason alone.

On many android tablets, you can also get GPS functionality without wi-fi or 3G. You can't get that with iOS, afaik.

--Pat

Do most people assume that folks who buy Apple products do it only to make some kind of fashion statement? Meaning that's the first thought, over the thought that despite the lower specs (if that's the case) maybe that person just prefers how the Apple product works for them? That's interesting if so.

And as far as looking like a "tech ignoramus or newb", I honestly can't say I've ever once cared, or even been cognizant of, what a total stranger thinks of my choice in tech. It'd be weird going through life worried about things like that I think.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ApK

It's not that complicated: Apple ONLY allows approved apps through the Apple app store, and Apple ONLY allows sideloaded content through iTunes.

First part - true
Second part - completely false
Apple only allows you to sideload content into the preloaded Apple apps through iTunes. Third party apps? You can load content in a variety of ways, as long as the app supports it. I haven't connected my iPad to iTunes in several months, but I load content onto it regularly.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by bugjd

Do most people assume that folks who buy Apple products do it only to make some kind of fashion statement? Meaning that's the first thought, over the thought that despite the lower specs (if that's the case) maybe that person just prefers how the Apple product works for them? That's interesting if so.

No, not at all. Just like users of any product, there are all kinds. For Apple, I would assume a big chunk are those who really don't like technology and just want the out-of-the-box ease that tends to come with Apple products. I could understand these people buying the Mini, especially if they are already heavily invested in the iOS experience. But I also think there is a large segment who are more enamored with the cachet of having the latest pricey Apple toy than with any practical considerations.

And as far as looking like a "tech ignoramus or newb", I honestly can't say I've ever once cared, or even been cognizant of, what a total stranger thinks of my choice in tech. It'd be weird going through life worried about things like that I think.

Fine, for you. But many do care. And I think for those that do, they risk looking somewhat naive instead of coming off as a savvy consumer they thought they'd appear to be simply by buying the very latest Apple product.

[PatNY]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

First part - true
Second part - completely false
Apple only allows you to sideload content into the preloaded Apple apps through iTunes. Third party apps? You can load content in a variety of ways, as long as the app supports it. I haven't connected my iPad to iTunes in several months, but I load content onto it regularly.

One or two years back, Apple completely cut off loading of content by third-party apps via USB. You can only do it via iTunes or wi-fi. I don't now why they changed their policies. I had apps that I was sideloading content to at one point via USB and then ... poof! ... that capability just disappeared.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

First part - true
Second part - completely false
Apple only allows you to sideload content into the preloaded Apple apps through iTunes. Third party apps? You can load content in a variety of ways, as long as the app supports it. I haven't connected my iPad to iTunes in several months, but I load content onto it regularly.

You mean like loading books into Bluefire reader via Dropbox? Yes, for those apps that allow it, that's true.

Does that work for music or video? Are there App Store apps that let you get mp3 or mp4 files onto the device without iTunes or downloading from Apple?

(Though wasn't there discussion here a while ago of Apple trying to prevent non-Apple purchases through apps, or something like that, which was supposedly going to result in the Kindle and Nook apps going away...didn't happen, but I can't recall if there was any truth to it.)
[edit: sort of like what I just noticed PatNY mentioned above.]

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by PatNY

As for functions/features that are superior on one platform, it should be mentioned that third-party reading apps are much much better on android than on iOS. So a serious reader might be better off going with android for that very reason alone.
--Pat

Exactly correct.
And this is a *reading* dominated forum.
Given the constraints on application behavior that Apple imposes it should surprise nobody that a reading-oriented forum should prefer reading value-add functions available in non-iOS environments. Like in-app ebook buying. Or raw pixel density in support of color magazines and comics.

In this venue, the consensus leans against the Mini because it really has nothing meaningful to justify the price to readers looking for a premium reading experience. Add in the hardware-focused crowd and the verdict is going to tilt even more.

Now, conversely, for people who value iOS very highly, the Mini has to contend with this:
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC...3rd-generation

With the deprecated iPad3 running $379 iPad mini buyers are going to be either very price constrained (which is not a normal Apple buyer profile) or so interested in the mini size to be willing to give up the improvement in the iPad3. How many those are we'll know soon enough.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ApK

Does that work for music or video? Are there App Store apps that let you get mp3 or mp4 files onto the device without iTunes or downloading from Apple?

Yes, absolutely.
I use a video player called OPlayer HD.
From the app you can browse SAMBA/FTP/DNLA shares and either play directly from the remote server or download files to the iPad to play locally later.
There are genuine restrictions on what you can do with an iPad. There is a lot more FUD spread about them than is actually valid.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Yes, absolutely.
I use a video player called OPlayer HD.
From the app you can browse SAMBA/FTP/DNLA shares and either play directly from the remote server or download files to the iPad to play locally later.

Out of interest, after downloading them via OPlayer are they then available to other media apps to play?

I think this was a constraint in earlier versions of the OS and I'm curious to know whether it's still the case.

Graham

[seajewel]

I'm not a fan of the price or the specs. But I will say that they have managed to give iPad mini bigger screen estate in a thinner, lighter package. I think the weight is something around 10 oz for this 7.85 inch device.. and a 10 hour battery life. I think that is amazing. If next year it can keep around the same size, weight, battery life and cram a retina screen in, I'd be lining up.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Graham

Out of interest, after downloading them via OPlayer are they then available to other music apps to play?

I think this was a constraint in earlier versions of the OS and I'm curious to know whether it's still the case.

No, that is a basic design restriction of iOS devices. Each app is completely sandboxed and cannot interact with other apps.
You can copy a file from one app to another, Apple provide an "Open In..." API that mediates between the two apps, but that creates a separate copy of the file in the filespace of the second app, you cannot share a file between two apps.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

No, that is a basic design restriction of iOS devices. Each app is completely sandboxed and cannot interact with other apps.
You can copy a file from one app to another, Apple provide an "Open In..." API that mediates between the two apps, but that creates a separate copy of the file in the filespace of the second app, you cannot share a file between two apps.

OK, thanks.

Graham

[ApK]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Yes, absolutely.
I use a video player called OPlayer HD.
From the app you can browse SAMBA/FTP/DNLA shares and either play directly from the remote server or download files to the iPad to play locally later.

OK, that's good to know. Still, it seems more like the exception than the rule.
It's very different from an ecosystem like Amazon's where it would be an exception to find a media consumption app, built-in or third-party, that you COULDN'T side-load to.
(Yes, I see the irony in the fact that the Amazon Instant Video app is one of those exceptions.....)