Author Tag always groups by author_sort

BetterRed · 04-03-2012, 10:08 PM

In the Author Tag Browser I'd prefer Emily Bronte appear in the E's rather than the B's

I tried tweaking "Use author sort in Tag Browser" to author and author_sort but Emily shows up in the B's with both values

Is there a way I can get the Tag browser to work on "natural values" rather than "derived values" - so that it's coherent with what I see in the main list.

TIA BR

speakingtohe · 04-04-2012, 12:27 AM

Once upon a time the tag browser sorted on authors and the gui sorted on author_sort. Then they changed the tag browser and I was a little miffed. I got used to it.

I am pretty sure there is a tweak or author management thing that works but only if using standard and consistent values in both fields to start with but I could be wrong there.

As I said I got used to it and feel that there are advantages and disadvantages to both ways. The derived values are preferred in most cases by the developers (except for the file structure itself) and the majority of users so I stick with that. I use tweaks because they do not change the values, but shy away from mass copy/replace things as in manage authors etc.

Helen

chaley · 04-04-2012, 04:52 AM

The tag browser always uses author_sort for sorting authors. The tweak determines what is displayed: author or author_sort. Note that the main gui also always uses author_sort: if the author_sort value for Emily Bronte is "Bronte, Emily", then she will show up under 'B', not 'E', in both the main gui and the tag browser.

If you want to sort authors in the way they are written, then you must change the value of author_sort. The change will affect the tag browser and the main gui. See http://manual.calibre-ebook.com/faq.html#id38 for some information on how calibre sorts authors.

BetterRed · 04-04-2012, 07:38 AM

Thanks guys

There seems to be no easy way to display the sort form of the name in the list either.

BR :sigh:

chaley · 04-04-2012, 08:26 AM

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

It seems that you want names sorted by how they are written. You can do that using the information in the link I posted just above. However, if you want them sometimes sorted one way and sometimes another, then there isn't a way to do that.

If you want to display author_sort in the tag browser instead of author, then set the tweak and restart calibre. The tweak is found in the section "Use author sort in Tag Browser". The exact setting is:
categories_use_field_for_author_name = 'author_sort'

BetterRed · 04-04-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaley

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

My issue is not about sorting of author names, it is, as indicated in the thread title about "Author Tag always groups by author_sort". I have no requirement to change the sorting of anything.

Its was my expectation that Author Tags would be grouped according to how they're displayed, so:-.

if I display as 'author', the name of the person who wrote Wuthering Heights would display as "Emily Bronte" under the 'E' tab,
if I display as 'author_sort", the name of the person who wrote Wuthering Heights would display as "Bronte, Emily" under the 'B' tab.

I'ld be happy with two tweaks, one to control how names are displayed (the one that exists) and another one to control how they are grouped. Then everyone can have the best and worst of all possible combinations :lol:

Grouping and Sorting are different things, although they're often conflated.
It took 30 years to convince MS of the difference :sigh:

BR

chaley · 04-05-2012, 03:08 AM

OK, now I understand. You do in fact want two ordering methods.

Grouping a randomly ordered list (which is what calibre starts with) requires three things:
1) An ordering function to put the list into grouping order
2) An equivalence function to determine whether adjacent items are in the same group
3) An ordering function to put the items in a group into the desired order

In calibre, functions 1 and 3 are the same function, order by author sort, used by both the GUI and the tag browser. Function 2 is group by first letter of author_sort.

There are two situations under your scheme. First, there is no grouping, which is equivalent to 1 group. Items would be ordered by author sort. Second, there is grouping by first letter. Ordering function 1 would sort by author (as written), grouping would occur by comparing author's first letters, then each group would be ordered by author sort.

The scheme would have some "interesting" side effects. In the GUI and in the ungrouped authors list, David Brin and Emily Bronte would be adjacent under B, while Edgar Allan Poe would be in the Ps. After grouping, in the tab browser Bronte and Poe would be adjacent under E, while Brin would move to D, making adjacencies in the GUI very different from adjacencies in the tag browser. I can't imagine wanting this, but then I am not you.

I am not interested in doing the programming to implement allowing having different ordering functions 1 and 3. If you or someone else wishes to do so, contact Kovid to see if he would be open to accepting the change.

As I said before, you can get what you want at the expense of always ordering authors as they are written instead of by the "flipped" LN, FN name. In this case we revert to ordering function 1 and 3 being the same function, order by author-as-written. Because the GUI and the tag browser use the same ordering function, the adjacency anomalies disappear.

BetterRed · 04-05-2012, 07:21 PM

Forget it

Save your arrogance for those close enough to look you in the eye, and ...

BR

kiwidude · 04-05-2012, 07:42 PM

Arrogance? chaley has explained in great detail what is involved and what the impact is to help you understand why he is not going to make the change himself. And instead you throw abuse at the guy?

Take your pathetic attitude on this and your other thread elsewhere, it isn't welcome on this board.

theducks · 04-05-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Forget it

Save your arrogance for those close enough to look you in the eye, and ...

BR

HarryT · 04-06-2012, 11:04 AM

You're out of order there, Red. Chaley gave you a very detailed and helpful reply explaining why he doesn't feel that the change you've requested would be beneficial. It doesn't merit your rude reply.

Please remember that all work done by chaley is done voluntarily, and for free. If you'd like to contribute to Calibre by making the change that you've requested yourself, I'm sure that Kovid would be pleased to offer your changed sorting behaviour as a selectable option in the program.

HarryT [MobileRead Moderator]

speakingtohe · 04-06-2012, 10:23 PM

Chaley has fixed/implemented countless things for me. Some things he has chosen not to implement and explained politely why not. To even answer a general question and give an explanation is more than can be expected considering the number of posts.

Perhaps you just did not understand what he was saying and found that upsetting enough to post in such a manner.

Helen

04-03-2012, 10:08 PM	#1
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 20,572 Karma: 26954694 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	Author Tag always groups by author_sort In the Author Tag Browser I'd prefer Emily Bronte appear in the E's rather than the B's I tried tweaking "Use author sort in Tag Browser" to author and author_sort but Emily shows up in the B's with both values Is there a way I can get the Tag browser to work on "natural values" rather than "derived values" - so that it's coherent with what I see in the main list. TIA BR

04-06-2012, 11:04 AM	#11
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	You're out of order there, Red. Chaley gave you a very detailed and helpful reply explaining why he doesn't feel that the change you've requested would be beneficial. It doesn't merit your rude reply. Please remember that all work done by chaley is done voluntarily, and for free. If you'd like to contribute to Calibre by making the change that you've requested yourself, I'm sure that Kovid would be pleased to offer your changed sorting behaviour as a selectable option in the program. HarryT [MobileRead Moderator] Last edited by HarryT; 04-06-2012 at 01:41 PM.

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04-04-2012, 12:27 AM	#2
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	Once upon a time the tag browser sorted on authors and the gui sorted on author_sort. Then they changed the tag browser and I was a little miffed. I got used to it. I am pretty sure there is a tweak or author management thing that works but only if using standard and consistent values in both fields to start with but I could be wrong there. As I said I got used to it and feel that there are advantages and disadvantages to both ways. The derived values are preferred in most cases by the developers (except for the file structure itself) and the majority of users so I stick with that. I use tweaks because they do not change the values, but shy away from mass copy/replace things as in manage authors etc. Helen

04-04-2012, 04:52 AM	#3
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	The tag browser always uses author_sort for sorting authors. The tweak determines what is displayed: author or author_sort. Note that the main gui also always uses author_sort: if the author_sort value for Emily Bronte is "Bronte, Emily", then she will show up under 'B', not 'E', in both the main gui and the tag browser. If you want to sort authors in the way they are written, then you must change the value of author_sort. The change will affect the tag browser and the main gui. See http://manual.calibre-ebook.com/faq.html#id38 for some information on how calibre sorts authors.

04-04-2012, 07:38 AM	#4
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 20,572 Karma: 26954694 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	Thanks guys There seems to be no easy way to display the sort form of the name in the list either. BR :sigh:

04-04-2012, 08:26 AM	#5
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	What exactly are you trying to accomplish? It seems that you want names sorted by how they are written. You can do that using the information in the link I posted just above. However, if you want them sometimes sorted one way and sometimes another, then there isn't a way to do that. If you want to display author_sort in the tag browser instead of author, then set the tweak and restart calibre. The tweak is found in the section "Use author sort in Tag Browser". The exact setting is: categories_use_field_for_author_name = 'author_sort'

04-05-2012, 03:08 AM	#7
chaley Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,742 Karma: 6997045 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Notts, England Device: Kobo Libra 2	OK, now I understand. You do in fact want two ordering methods. Grouping a randomly ordered list (which is what calibre starts with) requires three things: 1) An ordering function to put the list into grouping order 2) An equivalence function to determine whether adjacent items are in the same group 3) An ordering function to put the items in a group into the desired order In calibre, functions 1 and 3 are the same function, order by author sort, used by both the GUI and the tag browser. Function 2 is group by first letter of author_sort. There are two situations under your scheme. First, there is no grouping, which is equivalent to 1 group. Items would be ordered by author sort. Second, there is grouping by first letter. Ordering function 1 would sort by author (as written), grouping would occur by comparing author's first letters, then each group would be ordered by author sort. The scheme would have some "interesting" side effects. In the GUI and in the ungrouped authors list, David Brin and Emily Bronte would be adjacent under B, while Edgar Allan Poe would be in the Ps. After grouping, in the tab browser Bronte and Poe would be adjacent under E, while Brin would move to D, making adjacencies in the GUI very different from adjacencies in the tag browser. I can't imagine wanting this, but then I am not you. I am not interested in doing the programming to implement allowing having different ordering functions 1 and 3. If you or someone else wishes to do so, contact Kovid to see if he would be open to accepting the change. As I said before, you can get what you want at the expense of always ordering authors as they are written instead of by the "flipped" LN, FN name. In this case we revert to ordering function 1 and 3 being the same function, order by author-as-written. Because the GUI and the tag browser use the same ordering function, the adjacency anomalies disappear.

04-05-2012, 07:21 PM	#8
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 20,572 Karma: 26954694 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	Forget it Save your arrogance for those close enough to look you in the eye, and ... BR

04-05-2012, 07:42 PM	#9
kiwidude Calibre Plugins Developer Posts: 4,637 Karma: 2162064 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Oasis	Arrogance? chaley has explained in great detail what is involved and what the impact is to help you understand why he is not going to make the change himself. And instead you throw abuse at the guy? Take your pathetic attitude on this and your other thread elsewhere, it isn't welcome on this board.

04-06-2012, 10:23 PM	#12
speakingtohe Wizard Posts: 4,812 Karma: 26912940 Join Date: Apr 2010 Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet	Chaley has fixed/implemented countless things for me. Some things he has chosen not to implement and explained politely why not. To even answer a general question and give an explanation is more than can be expected considering the number of posts. Perhaps you just did not understand what he was saying and found that upsetting enough to post in such a manner. Helen

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