So what e-reader do you use now you've given up on Sony?

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Rizla

The T3 looks nice (lack of front-light notwithstanding). But you can't customize the user interface. Everything by Sony up to the 650 is much-loved partly because of PRS+. Without PRS+, the firmware was solid, but feature-poor. The T1 / T2 could be rooted, so again they could be customized. The T3 cannot be rooted, so users are stuck with the the solid but less-than-stellar UI that Sony includes.

I understand your point about customization, although I am thinking that it will possibly happen.

I have no need to customize, I can and have done it with tablets etc. but on the reader I am happy just to open the book, find the book, have a whole pile of books on at once etc. and most importantly read the book without any glitches or undocumented features. I don't like a built in light particularly, preferring overhead lighting when necessary and the Sony cover light is reasonable on the rare occasion I need to use it.

I rarely browse on my reader(s) and would have to be hard up for something to do to play a game on it/them. So out of the box reliability and functionality is hard to beat in my book

Helen

[Glorfindel]

Originally Posted by Rizla

That's never stopped a Kindle owner before

lol I suppose

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by Rizla

you said Sony.

The no was in response to your suggestion of buying the Morbius ereader.

[LaughingVulcan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why don't you remove the DRM, like many people do?

I'd say two separate reasons... First, and most important, I don't know how. Second, even if I knew how, I'm not sure if I want to spend my time messing with it. (I'm still failing to understand why DRM is necessary - the music industry seems to have gotten along without it and there are publishers and authors who get along without it.)

What I did end up doing was buying a Kindle 2nd edition (no backlight) and a cover for it at Barnes and Noble last night - they are available on closeout at some stores. ($80 for both including tax.) I've uploaded all my Baen books to it. Today I'll load the Harry Potter collection on it, then try to scrape together all my files from Gutenberg etc.

Eventually I'll replace the battery on my 650 and delete all the files I've duplicated onto my new Nook, leaving only the proprietary stuff on there. I wish there were some way to check what items (if any at all) wouldn't migrate.

And I still want to get an iPad Air, but that'll have to wait awhile. I am happy with still haveing e-Ink, though.

[hahamango]

Originally Posted by Rizla

I guess a lot of former-Sony customers have chosen not to go with the T3 and have chosen a different brand.

I had a 650 and loved it. Now I use a Nook ST with Coolreader. The rooted OS is great.

I think if I was in the market for an e-reader now, I'd get a Kobo Glo and root it.

If you gave up on Sony, what did you move to?

I currently have a T1 but I'm planning on getting a new eReader very soon. Not only has the transfer to Kobo been a disastrous experience for me, but I'm having trouble getting foreign texts to appear correctly on the T1 because many characters aren't supported. I'm considering getting the Kindle Paperwhite because of the amount of languages it supports.

[LaughingVulcan]

Originally Posted by radius

How is the iPad any better with respect to DRM than an eink-based reader?

And if you mean to read DRM-free content on the iPad, then you could just as well do it on the eink reader.

It gives a choice as to stores - multiple reader apps on one platform. Does that get around DRM, not at all, in fact it makes it even more of a walled garden. OTOH, I don't have to do anything special (rooting, whatever,) to be concerned about hardware obsolescence.

[LaughingVulcan]

Originally Posted by teija

I've purchased mine slightly used or as really good deals, so the amount I've spent on my eReaders up until last week was under $100. Truth being told, I could have managed perfectly fine with just my Kobo Mini (still my favorite) and that only cost me $38... that's nowhere NEAR the cost of my iPad ($550), and I will not prefer to read on the iPad regardless of cost, as I find the eInk so much easier on my eyes - in fact I bought my eReader long after I bought the iPad, as the iPad just wasn't "cutting it" for my reading activity.

Well, I just invested in a Nook simpletouch, so it seems I agree with you about the eInk thing. (Besides, don't have the money to buy an iPad ATM.)

[LaughingVulcan]

Originally Posted by LaughingVulcan

I started with a 505, replaced into the 600 series when I had a screen crack and replaced again to a 650 on another screen crack. The battery on my 650 is marginal now, so I'm giving serious consideration to replacement.

The more I think about it, though, the more I'm leaning towards going back to paper. (Not saying I will, as there are many things I love about the e-Ink experience not the least is the weight and that I can have 281 books and a host of magazines in one reader, and never came anywhere close to filling it.)

But the reality of the Sony closure makes it pretty clear to me that so long as eBooks are DRM-ridden and in proprietary formats, they aren't really my property, any more than the several hundred dollars worth of music I lost over the years due to DRM. So I'm not anxious to transfer my account to Kobo, nor am I anxious to keep using my Reader or purchase a replacement for it.

If I were to change, I would either purchase a Kindle if I really still want the e-Ink feel or I'd more likely invest in an iPad Air. (When I think about the number of re-purchases of Sony's I've made, I'm really on par with an iPad's price.)

I went ahead and did the migration link. 98 of 109 books migrated. (And gives me a target for how many non-Sony-bought titles I have - the vast majority of them, it seems.) So, 10% failure rate, including the Bible (NIV), The Hobbit, and the LOTR trilogy (as one book.) All the others I'm not going to miss, really, but a 10% failure rate was not very heartening.

ETA: And now I searched Kobo, and I found that 5 of the 11 titles which didn't transfer including the Bible (NIV,) The Hobbit, and the LOTR Trilogy are available for purchase from Kobo.

So I called Kobo using the phone number given. And had one of the most frustrating customer service calls of my life, which ended in being directed to update my Reader software and this will somehow cause those books to migrate. Hmm.... I'm not buying it.

(And essentially being REFUSED when I asked for a supervisor.)

Maybe these instructions will work. But I could see this process crashing their availability on the PC that my Reader program is stored on, too.

So now I'm strongly disposed to just leave everything as it is, replace the battery on my 650 so I still have the books, write off the $51.62 (in Kobo prices) for those five titles until my 650 dies and then repurchase them if I feel like I want to.

[robko]

Originally Posted by LaughingVulcan

All the others I'm not going to miss, really, but a 10% failure rate was not very heartening.

ETA: And now I searched Kobo, and I found that 5 of the 11 titles which didn't transfer including the Bible (NIV,) The Hobbit, and the LOTR Trilogy are available for purchase from Kobo.

Considering Sony could have done like Diesel Books and others have done and said "We're closing, get your books now or they're gone" I'm not sure how you could say 10% not transferring is disheartening.

As has been pointed out by others, in some cases books that are on the Kobo site may not be the exact same edition (I know in at least one case the author had regained rights over the book so the old publisher version (which had been purchased from Sony) wasn't the same as the new author version that Kobo had).

[eschwartz]

@LaughingVulcan, DRM removal is quite easy. Just google "apprentice alf", download The Tools, and follow the (simple, clear) directions

[radius]

Originally Posted by LaughingVulcan

I'd say two separate reasons... First, and most important, I don't know how. Second, even if I knew how, I'm not sure if I want to spend my time messing with it. (I'm still failing to understand why DRM is necessary - the music industry seems to have gotten along without it and there are publishers and authors who get along without it.)

What I did end up doing was buying a Kindle 2nd edition (no backlight) and a cover for it at Barnes and Noble last night - they are available on closeout at some stores. ($80 for both including tax.) I've uploaded all my Baen books to it. Today I'll load the Harry Potter collection on it, then try to scrape together all my files from Gutenberg etc.

I don't follow your frustration with Sony at all...

If you have sync'ed your Sony reader and the Sony library software, you have a copy of all of your books on the computer. Sony gave lots of notice for you to download any books you didn't already have in local storage.

Since Sony used Adobe's DRM standard, you should be able to read those books on anything that has an Adobe renderer in it like Adobe Digital Editions on a Windows or Mac machine, or in Aldiko book reader for Android devices, on Nooks, or on Kobos and I'm sure there are more out there.

Generally if you move from one device manufacturer to another you are going to lose your books locked into that store. In other words, if you bought from Apple's iBooks on an iOS device or Mac, if you bought Kindle format books from Amazon or kepub books from Kobo you are out of luck when you move to a different platform unless you break the DRM. Sony actually chose the only DRM that is accepted across multiple manufacturers.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

@LaughingVulcan, DRM removal is quite easy. Just google "apprentice alf", download The Tools, and follow the (simple, clear) directions

Absolutely. I felt the same about it being too complicated ... and I had the extra issue of using Linux instead of Windows or OSX. But "apprentice alf" makes it doable and it's worth the effort. And now I can pick whatever device I like reading on best for any title I've got in my library. (Actually a BIG part of it is Calibre -- an absolutely amazing program in my opinion.)

[LaughingVulcan]

Originally Posted by robko

Considering Sony could have done like Diesel Books and others have done and said "We're closing, get your books now or they're gone" I'm not sure how you could say 10% not transferring is disheartening.

As has been pointed out by others, in some cases books that are on the Kobo site may not be the exact same edition (I know in at least one case the author had regained rights over the book so the old publisher version (which had been purchased from Sony) wasn't the same as the new author version that Kobo had).

It is disheartening because it should be completely unnecessary to lose any books. Not only on the "why is DRM necessary" front, which is what it is, but also because of Kobo's terrible customer service. It would have been nice if they had planned it such that their customer service was prepared to say, "Yes, it isn't right that these $50.00 worth of books you paid for with Sony that we have available didn't transfer over, so because we want your business we'll verify that those didn't transfer over and give them to you." [After all, it should only be a small fraction of what the person spent with Sony so we should eventually make that back, anyway.] Or even, "We'll issue you a $10.00 credit and we're sorry you're having this problem." Or even that Sony had set up such credits as part of the transfer.

Maybe I'd even have been satisfied if customer service was scripted to say, "We're sorry. If the editions didn't transfer it is most likely because it was a different publishing company that carries our edition and we can't transfer it. We're very sorry." But the call I had was that bad that I have no confidence in what they told me.

It's disheartening because if I had spent that $50.00 on paper editions, I'd still have the paper editions until the paper disintegrates. Now I've got them only as long as this computer and my 650 are still alive.

And now that I have a Nook, I'll think twice before I hit the purchase button.

Originally Posted by radius

I don't follow your frustration with Sony at all...

If you have sync'ed your Sony reader and the Sony library software, you have a copy of all of your books on the computer. Sony gave lots of notice for you to download any books you didn't already have in local storage.

Since Sony used Adobe's DRM standard, you should be able to read those books on anything that has an Adobe renderer in it like Adobe Digital Editions on a Windows or Mac machine, or in Aldiko book reader for Android devices, on Nooks, or on Kobos and I'm sure there are more out there.

Generally if you move from one device manufacturer to another you are going to lose your books locked into that store. In other words, if you bought from Apple's iBooks on an iOS device or Mac, if you bought Kindle format books from Amazon or kepub books from Kobo you are out of luck when you move to a different platform unless you break the DRM. Sony actually chose the only DRM that is accepted across multiple manufacturers.

OK, first this isn't about not having the Sony books on my equipment. I was a 650 user, which means all the books I have are on my local environment in the Reader software and I always kept my Reader fully synced.

Now, to DRM. "Generally if you move from one device manufacturer to another you are going to lose your books locked into that store." Yes, and that's not right. You can tell me that's the way it is, that's the way I bought them so I should have known that. And sure, that's still all true.

That still doesn't make me happy that I chose to drink the Kool-Aid, or a feeling that now I know, eventually, I've thrown away that $50.00. Could it be different because of Adobe DRM and the customer service person was right? I'd like to think so. But why weren't the original instructions for the transfer geared that way, then?

But in DRM... I learned to give up on WMVs until DRM-free MP3's came out and only lost a few hundred on it. I have clues why I haven't done that with eBooks, but now I'm rethinking those whys.

But after a miserable customer service experience with Kobo and reading many authentic reports that this is Kobo: Good equipment, pretty good store, but customer service sucks.... I've decided to walk away from Kobo and embrace Nook. And when B&N finally packs it in (and I expect that,) maybe I'll get a Kindle. So, I'm sticking with the whole thing but that doesn't mean I don't think the situation sucks or that I'll ever trust eBooks in quite the same way again.

As to Sony... In e-Ink Sony was first in the commercial environment. They should have been the innovator, and they should have stepped out in front of Amazon at every opportunity. Instead they were typical Sony, dawdle along and keep thinking they're #1 in the tech world so they can be #1 by just being Sony. And this is their M.O., a better article than I can write is at http://gizmodo.com/5477633/how-sony-lost-its-way. Maybe the flip to ePub is proof that they are not always this way. But now I'm really mad that I was an early adopter of Sony - before Amazon announced the Kindle - and now I'm stuck with having to do more on my own.

I still own a lot of Sony gear. But that is the last time I trust Sony with my money on anything that involved proprietary anything. They have now become just another brand to me, no matter how cool or revolutionary.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by LaughingVulcan

It gives a choice as to stores - multiple reader apps on one platform. Does that get around DRM, not at all, in fact it makes it even more of a walled garden. OTOH, I don't have to do anything special (rooting, whatever,) to be concerned about hardware obsolescence.

I think that's the main advantage of an ipad / Android tablet over an e-ink reader. You install apps for multiple sources and can buy from them all. Currently I am unaware of a widely available e-ink e-reader that allows that. A rooted Android e-ink reader should do it though. Shame you can't get one out-of-the-box in N.America.

[FacebookVirus]

Originally Posted by LaughingVulcan

It is disheartening because it should be completely unnecessary to lose any books. Not only on the "why is DRM necessary" front, which is what it is, but also because of Kobo's terrible customer service. It would have been nice if they had planned it such that their customer service was prepared to say, "Yes, it isn't right that these $50.00 worth of books you paid for with Sony that we have available didn't transfer over, so because we want your business we'll verify that those didn't transfer over and give them to you." [After all, it should only be a small fraction of what the person spent with Sony so we should eventually make that back, anyway.] Or even, "We'll issue you a $10.00 credit and we're sorry you're having this problem." Or even that Sony had set up such credits as part of the transfer.

Maybe I'd even have been satisfied if customer service was scripted to say, "We're sorry. If the editions didn't transfer it is most likely because it was a different publishing company that carries our edition and we can't transfer it. We're very sorry." But the call I had was that bad that I have no confidence in what they told me.

It's disheartening because if I had spent that $50.00 on paper editions, I'd still have the paper editions until the paper disintegrates. Now I've got them only as long as this computer and my 650 are still alive.

And now that I have a Nook, I'll think twice before I hit the purchase button.




OK, first this isn't about not having the Sony books on my equipment. I was a 650 user, which means all the books I have are on my local environment in the Reader software and I always kept my Reader fully synced.

Now, to DRM. "Generally if you move from one device manufacturer to another you are going to lose your books locked into that store." Yes, and that's not right. You can tell me that's the way it is, that's the way I bought them so I should have known that. And sure, that's still all true.

Although I downloaded all of my Sony books months ago, I agree you shouldn't have to be OK with losing only a certain percentage of your books.

Surely no one would accept a publisher breaking into their home and removing only 10 percent of their paper books.