Cutting throught the ebook noise

ChaoZ · 09-29-2010, 12:48 PM

Maybe this is just me, but when I see an author I'm not familiar with aggressively promote his or her own material through forums and social media, a part of me automatically casts a negative view on the book. It's as if subconsciously, I feel that if a writer's product is good, there would be no need for self promotion of that kind - it would be done through word of mouth, through the publisher etc.

I realize this may be impractical these days as publishers expect a writer to provide their own audience to a degree. (A few of the writers I follow are very active in their online promotion activities). And it's certainly not to say that self-published books are always garbage. Perhaps I am stuck with an outdated publishing model in my head, where publishing houses and editors act as a filter of the slush pile; where, to appear in print, significant amount of time and money (outside of the writer) has been devoted into pushing worthwhile products.

With the increasing popularity of ebooks, more and more previously unpublishable material will (and has) hit the marketplace. And of course, all those authors will aggressively push their own works.

Is the mindset of automatically dismissing authors and books which are self-published (or even works from small publishers) and aggressively marketed at a grass-roots level, a valid way of cutting through the noise? I feel guilty for doing it, but one has to be able to filter somehow.

Pookeysgirl · 09-29-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

Maybe this is just me, but when I see an author I'm not familiar with aggressively promote his or her own material through forums and social media, a part of me automatically casts a negative view on the book. It's as if subconsciously, I feel that if a writer's product is good, there would be no need for self promotion of that kind - it would be done through word of mouth, through the publisher etc.

I realize this may be impractical these days as publishers expect a writer to provide their own audience to a degree. (A few of the writers I follow are very active in their online promotion activities). And it's certainly not to say that self-published books are always garbage. Perhaps I am stuck with an outdated publishing model in my head, where publishing houses and editors act as a filter of the slush pile; where, to appear in print, significant amount of time and money (outside of the writer) has been devoted into pushing worthwhile products.

With the increasing popularity of ebooks, more and more previously unpublishable material will (and has) hit the marketplace. And of course, all those authors will aggressively push their own works.

Is the mindset of automatically dismissing authors and books which are self-published (or even works from small publishers) and aggressively marketed at a grass-roots level, a valid way of cutting through the noise? I feel guilty for doing it, but one has to be able to filter somehow.

Can you explain what you mean by "aggressively promoting"? I've learned of new authors right here at MR that I never would have found cruising the isles at Chapters

mr ploppy · 09-29-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

Maybe this is just me, but when I see an author I'm not familiar with aggressively promote his or her own material through forums and social media, a part of me automatically casts a negative view on the book. It's as if subconsciously, I feel that if a writer's product is good, there would be no need for self promotion of that kind - it would be done through word of mouth, through the publisher etc.

Word of mouth only works when you have (a few) readers. Getting those first readers would be the tricky part. The traditional way would be to send out review copies, but then you would be gambling everything on the thoughts of a few individuals. Books, like other entertainment products, are a matter of taste. And with ebooks you can give away a large free sample for people to make their own minds up about. So it would make more sense to me to concentrate on that rather than go down the review route.

MaggieScratch · 09-29-2010, 01:10 PM

For my own part, I think the promotion part goes down better with a spoonful of sugar--that is, you have to make the promotion interesting and entertaining apart from the actual promotion. Write interesting blog posts and then have a link to your book. Participate in discussions, with a (not too big and obnoxious) link in your sig. If people are interested in what you have to say, they will be interested in your book. You can't just go on Twitter and say, "O HAY, I HAZ A BOOK" and expect people to come running. Use Twitter to be witty and charming and say, "Hey, here's an interesting link" or "I have a new blog post on $TOPIC" and then it will be retweeted, people will follow you, and find out about your book (which is linked in your profile, of course).

dsvick · 09-29-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

Maybe this is just me, but when I see an author I'm not familiar with aggressively promote his or her own material through forums and social media, a part of me automatically casts a negative view on the book. It's as if subconsciously, I feel that if a writer's product is good, there would be no need for self promotion of that kind - it would be done through word of mouth, through the publisher etc.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and yes I think it is an outdated way of looking at it, unfortunately it will be hard to break for some people.

In the old model the only way to advertise was with a fair amount of monetary backing, usually you could only get that through an association with a publisher (unless you had your own money).

With the rise of the internet and various ways of self (or small press) publishing, not only electronic although that makes it even easier, authors can market their works for substantially less money than even just a few years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pookeysgirl

I've learned of new authors right here at MR that I never would have found cruising the isles at Chapters

So have I!! Some have been quite good and I've gone on to purchase additional works by them. On the other hand some, like ChaoZ fears, have been pretty terrible.

desertgrandma · 09-29-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

With the increasing popularity of ebooks, more and more previously unpublishable material will (and has) hit the marketplace. And of course, all those authors will aggressively push their own works.

Is the mindset of automatically dismissing authors and books which are self-published (or even works from small publishers) and aggressively marketed at a grass-roots level, a valid way of cutting through the noise? I feel guilty for doing it, but one has to be able to filter somehow.

NO. If you out of hand dismiss all these new/unpublished authors, you will miss out on some real treasures.

You need to at least look at one post, or review the book description to see if it might be worthwhile. Obviously, most will be "nevermind" but trust me....there are jewels out there.

Thats the neat thing about this site. Ebooks are usually offered at killer prices....or free.

ardeegee · 09-29-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

Maybe this is just me, but when I see an author I'm not familiar with aggressively promote his or her own material through forums and social media, a part of me automatically casts a negative view on the book.

I feel that way when writers make statements about the quality of their books-- terms that reviewers would make, but which can not be made objectively by the author. Like "entertaining" and "edge of your seat thriller" and "humorous" and "like no other."

Descriptions like that just cry out "hubris." Authors, you can not determine if your own writing is "entertaining" or an "edge-of-the-seat thriller" or "humorous." You may want your book to be like that-- you may think your book is like that. But you aren't in an objective position to determine that. Your skills and your judgment might just plain suck. And as for "like no other" and the often used "unique?" Just because you have never read something similar to your story does not mean nobody has ever written it.

ChaoZ · 09-29-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

NO. If you out of hand dismiss all these new/unpublished authors, you will miss out on some real treasures.

You need to at least look at one post, or review the book description to see if it might be worthwhile. Obviously, most will be "nevermind" but trust me....there are jewels out there.

Thats the neat thing about this site. Ebooks are usually offered at killer prices....or free.

Cheap or free they may be, but there's still a time investment involved in reading them. Samples go a long way of course to help, I must admit. And another thing, free/nearly-free ebooks (non public domain) also raise red flags for me. The old adage "You get what you pay for" still lingers.

I don't dismiss new authors, but self promotion (in most aspects) does not help get me to try them. If another forum member, in a discussion of a certain genre or another book, mentions the new author in passing, I would definitely give it a shot.

ChaoZ · 09-29-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pookeysgirl

Can you explain what you mean by "aggressively promoting"? I've learned of new authors right here at MR that I never would have found cruising the isles at Chapters

For example, if an author digs up a dead thread that is only tangentially related to their book and uses it to say "Here, because you like X, you'll love my book." OR in a thread discussing cheap, but worthwhile reads, adds a post saying "Hey, my book just got released for $2.99!"

It just seems tacky for an author to recommend their own work.

desertgrandma · 09-29-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

Cheap or free they may be, but there's still a time investment involved in reading them. Samples go a long way of course to help, I must admit. And another thing, free/nearly-free ebooks (non public domain) also raise red flags for me. The old adage "You get what you pay for" still lingers.

I don't dismiss new authors, but self promotion (in most aspects) does not help get me to try them. If another forum member, in a discussion of a certain genre or another book, mentions the new author in passing, I would definitely give it a shot.

Some of what you say is true. There is a lot of flotsam out there.

But, when you talk about books, making an investment of your time is all you have to guide yourself by. It doesn't have to be a large investment, a few minutes with a book in the genre you like will do it.

Please, I'm not saying try every book out there. But I've stumbled upon quite a few good reads here that I would never have tried in a million years by following some members recommendations and gut instinct....and one great one.

I"ve also taken a chance on trying a few books based on the authors own posts. Some kept my interest, some didn't. Others felt differently.

Personally, and this is just me, mind you, I don't consider any time reading wasted. Like it or not, I've learned something about what I've read......even if its that I don't like the authors style, or the story itself.

But...ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

meromana · 09-30-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

I don't dismiss new authors, but self promotion (in most aspects) does not help get me to try them. If another forum member, in a discussion of a certain genre or another book, mentions the new author in passing, I would definitely give it a shot.

Not trying to be argumentative here, and there certainly are degrees of self-promotion which we all find obnoxious, but think chicken or egg--how would the recommending forum member have ever heard about the book if the author didn't promote it by some means, at some point? If an author just puts a book up on Amazon, Smashwords, or wherever and never tells one person about it, I guarantee, he will never sell one copy. It's no different than starting a blog and waiting/hoping for visitors; if you never promote in any way, no one will ever find it among the millions out there.

--Maria

MrPLD · 09-30-2010, 12:30 AM

This situation is very exciting, it's a lot like the open-source software world about 15~10 years ago where all of a sudden everyone was able to put forward their software without having to set up a huge business front. Over time though the good stuff does emerge out of the noise, but getting it started is the real crux, once you've got a few dozen followers then you can step back and let nature take its course with only minor interventions now and then.

As has been mentioned before already, it's a chicken-and-egg situation and to get it started you frequently do have to step out there and do something to get things going.

There certainly are a lot of authors out there who really get in your face but that in all honesty is true of all markets.

We all react in different ways to things, so while you ( ChaoZ ) may well steer clear of the book there could be others that'll look at it, then months/years later a book they looked at might become one that falls into your selection criterion due to their prior actions.

I don't condone aggressive push marketing - I find it rather crass and would rather take a bit longer and establish a reputation based on more reputable backing, even if it's only to satisfy my own moral standpoint.

Paul.

crich70 · 09-30-2010, 01:06 AM

I think a lot of it is that ebooks are still so new in comparison to what we think of as traditional publishing. Of course I can imagine someone from around 1450 or 1500 being dubious that investing in a company that prints books for mass media would be a good idea as well. Hindsight is always easier than foresight. Will paper books and the way they are promoted still be around in say 50 yrs? I don't know, but when you can go from receiving an advertisement via email to a link to a site to the purchase of a book in under 5 minutes I guess you have to expect that there will be some changes on how things are marketed. I agree that some authors probably 'overpromote' their works. Saying that everyone will enjoy their book etc. for example is something that a traditional book publisher would probably frown on since everyone has their own tastes and not all writer's are likely to be great shakes at proper editing before they put the link to their books up on their sites. Of course there have been bad books published throughout the history of publishing I'm sure too. No editor is perfect and traditional advertisers aren't incapable of error either. The only real constant is change and there are always a few rough spots to be smoothed when a new way of doing something is first put into practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

Maybe this is just me, but when I see an author I'm not familiar with aggressively promote his or her own material through forums and social media, a part of me automatically casts a negative view on the book. It's as if subconsciously, I feel that if a writer's product is good, there would be no need for self promotion of that kind - it would be done through word of mouth, through the publisher etc.

I realize this may be impractical these days as publishers expect a writer to provide their own audience to a degree. (A few of the writers I follow are very active in their online promotion activities). And it's certainly not to say that self-published books are always garbage. Perhaps I am stuck with an outdated publishing model in my head, where publishing houses and editors act as a filter of the slush pile; where, to appear in print, significant amount of time and money (outside of the writer) has been devoted into pushing worthwhile products.

With the increasing popularity of ebooks, more and more previously unpublishable material will (and has) hit the marketplace. And of course, all those authors will aggressively push their own works.

Is the mindset of automatically dismissing authors and books which are self-published (or even works from small publishers) and aggressively marketed at a grass-roots level, a valid way of cutting through the noise? I feel guilty for doing it, but one has to be able to filter somehow.

WriterGurl1 · 09-30-2010, 01:07 AM

I found this site and others like it via recommendations on how to promote my book. I learned instantly that there's a lot more to it than yelling "read my book" every time I post. Now I log on to share in worthwhile discussions and to hone my craft rather than promote anything. I do use my cover as my avatar because I am an indie and nobody is seeing my book on the shelves at the grocery store, but I hope no one considers my methods gorilla marketing

And I've also discovered some great new voices in the process.

GA Russell · 09-30-2010, 01:32 AM

I think part of the issue is the subject of the book.

If an author of a non-fiction book states that to his knowledge there has been no other book written precisely on point, I wouldn't be offended by such a statement.

On the other hand, most of the self-promoters that I have noticed here seem to be authors of romance novels. It's hard to state that one's romance novel is valuable without looking like an idiot! Maybe the most that one can get away with there is to state, "I tried to make it a fun read, and I hope you will agree that I succeeded."

It is a simple truth that even an interested third party like a publisher can get away with praise for a work that the work's author cannot credibly say.

I see nothing at all wrong with quietly giving a link to a sample of one's work. Every author must assume that there are folks who would enjoy his book, or else he wouldn't have spent the time to write it.

09-29-2010, 12:48 PM	#1
ChaoZ Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 192 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Mini, Kobo Touch	Cutting throught the ebook noise Maybe this is just me, but when I see an author I'm not familiar with aggressively promote his or her own material through forums and social media, a part of me automatically casts a negative view on the book. It's as if subconsciously, I feel that if a writer's product is good, there would be no need for self promotion of that kind - it would be done through word of mouth, through the publisher etc. I realize this may be impractical these days as publishers expect a writer to provide their own audience to a degree. (A few of the writers I follow are very active in their online promotion activities). And it's certainly not to say that self-published books are always garbage. Perhaps I am stuck with an outdated publishing model in my head, where publishing houses and editors act as a filter of the slush pile; where, to appear in print, significant amount of time and money (outside of the writer) has been devoted into pushing worthwhile products. With the increasing popularity of ebooks, more and more previously unpublishable material will (and has) hit the marketplace. And of course, all those authors will aggressively push their own works. Is the mindset of automatically dismissing authors and books which are self-published (or even works from small publishers) and aggressively marketed at a grass-roots level, a valid way of cutting through the noise? I feel guilty for doing it, but one has to be able to filter somehow.

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09-29-2010, 01:10 PM	#4
MaggieScratch Has got to the black veil Posts: 542 Karma: 2144168 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Device: Kobo Aura One, Kindle Paperwhite 2	For my own part, I think the promotion part goes down better with a spoonful of sugar--that is, you have to make the promotion interesting and entertaining apart from the actual promotion. Write interesting blog posts and then have a link to your book. Participate in discussions, with a (not too big and obnoxious) link in your sig. If people are interested in what you have to say, they will be interested in your book. You can't just go on Twitter and say, "O HAY, I HAZ A BOOK" and expect people to come running. Use Twitter to be witty and charming and say, "Hey, here's an interesting link" or "I have a new blog post on $TOPIC" and then it will be retweeted, people will follow you, and find out about your book (which is linked in your profile, of course).

09-30-2010, 12:30 AM	#12
MrPLD Author's pet-geek Posts: 933 Karma: 1040670 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: North Queensland, Australia Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Onyx Boox M96	This situation is very exciting, it's a lot like the open-source software world about 15~10 years ago where all of a sudden everyone was able to put forward their software without having to set up a huge business front. Over time though the good stuff does emerge out of the noise, but getting it started is the real crux, once you've got a few dozen followers then you can step back and let nature take its course with only minor interventions now and then. As has been mentioned before already, it's a chicken-and-egg situation and to get it started you frequently do have to step out there and do something to get things going. There certainly are a lot of authors out there who really get in your face but that in all honesty is true of all markets. We all react in different ways to things, so while you ( ChaoZ ) may well steer clear of the book there could be others that'll look at it, then months/years later a book they looked at might become one that falls into your selection criterion due to their prior actions. I don't condone aggressive push marketing - I find it rather crass and would rather take a bit longer and establish a reputation based on more reputable backing, even if it's only to satisfy my own moral standpoint. Paul.

09-30-2010, 01:07 AM	#14
WriterGurl1 Heidi Posts: 6 Karma: 499710 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Arizona Device: Kindle	I found this site and others like it via recommendations on how to promote my book. I learned instantly that there's a lot more to it than yelling "read my book" every time I post. Now I log on to share in worthwhile discussions and to hone my craft rather than promote anything. I do use my cover as my avatar because I am an indie and nobody is seeing my book on the shelves at the grocery store, but I hope no one considers my methods gorilla marketing And I've also discovered some great new voices in the process.

09-30-2010, 01:32 AM	#15
GA Russell Montreal wins Grey Cup! Posts: 7,583 Karma: 31484197 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Device: Paperwhite, Kindles 10 & 4 and jetBook Lite	I think part of the issue is the subject of the book. If an author of a non-fiction book states that to his knowledge there has been no other book written precisely on point, I wouldn't be offended by such a statement. On the other hand, most of the self-promoters that I have noticed here seem to be authors of romance novels. It's hard to state that one's romance novel is valuable without looking like an idiot! Maybe the most that one can get away with there is to state, "I tried to make it a fun read, and I hope you will agree that I succeeded." It is a simple truth that even an interested third party like a publisher can get away with praise for a work that the work's author cannot credibly say. I see nothing at all wrong with quietly giving a link to a sample of one's work. Every author must assume that there are folks who would enjoy his book, or else he wouldn't have spent the time to write it.

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