The secret behind the new Paperwhite: E Ink Carta - Page 5

caleb72 · 09-05-2013, 12:12 PM

I don't know how long it will take to get to the Australian market, but I'll probably pass. I love my current PW and although the screen improvements seem pretty good, they also seem a bit incremental and probably not compelling enough for me to take the leap.

I held on to my K3 until Amazon delivered front light technology. Now I have it, I'm not sure what my next need is going to be.

It might be a reasonable wait before I have an opportunity to buy, so I'll reassess then.

johnnyb · 09-05-2013, 12:47 PM

or instead of re-selling you could just order the new PW and send the old one back...and see if you'll get caught (i.e. if their handling guys notice the difference)

derangedhermit · 09-05-2013, 12:51 PM

The incremental improvements in e-ink contrast over the past several years, and the unchanged 4-bit gray scale, make it uninteresting to me as a basic technology. 1/4 to 1/7th the contrast of paper? No thanks. 4-bit grayscale? No thanks. The tech isn't evolving into something I'm interested in buying into again.

100:1 contrast, 256 shades of gray

, ~300 ppi, and I'm interested. E-ink isn't going to get there, ever, as far as I can tell. Very low power consumption is by far the biggest feature, and that's not enough.

DSpider · 09-05-2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derangedhermit

The incremental improvements in e-ink contrast over the past several years, and the unchanged 4-bit gray scale, make it uninteresting to me as a basic technology. 1/4 to 1/7th the contrast of paper? No thanks. 4-bit grayscale? No thanks. The tech isn't evolving into something I'm interested in buying into again.

100:1 contrast, 256 shades of gray

, ~300 ppi, and I'm interested. E-ink isn't going to get there, ever, as far as I can tell. Very low power consumption is by far the biggest feature, and that's not enough.

16 shades of grey are enough for displaying text.

Have you ever read a printed book? They're much, much worse than what the current state of e-ink is at.

nesler · 09-05-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derangedhermit

100:1 contrast, 256 shades of gray

, ~300 ppi, and I'm interested. E-ink isn't going to get there, ever, as far as I can tell. Very low power consumption is by far the biggest feature, and that's not enough.

Uh, Pearl does display 16 shades of gray. A far cry from 256, but I'm not sure how useful that'd be anyway.

And the Kobo Aura HD is 265 ppi. So it's getting there.

fjtorres · 09-05-2013, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSpider

16 shades of grey are enough for displaying text.

Have you ever read a printed book? They're much, much worse than what the current state of e-ink is at.

Especially, mass market paperbacks.
It is no accident that ebook growth is seriously shrinking the market for that format; cost, convenience, ergonomics, text quality... even Vizplex 2-bit eink has them beat hands down. And that is before factoring in typographic controls.
The frontlit screens may not be up to the quality of "folio-grade" collectibles, but they more than hold their own with the plebian hardcovers used for midlist titles these days.

Mivo · 09-06-2013, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derangedhermit

Very low power consumption is by far the biggest feature, and that's not enough.

That is one of the most significant features, though. I have to charge my Nexus every day, or every other day. My e-ink devices need to be re-charged perhaps once a month. It may not be enough for you, and I usually don't have issues with re-charging my tablet daily either, but I feel that for many people that is a decisive advantage of e-ink devices.

While I do enjoy reading on my Nexus 7 and feel that it is the first LCD tablet that I can read comfortably on, the e-ink devices still offer a superior reading experience to me. It's more paper-like, and they offer much less distraction.

I do agree that e-ink development is lacking a little in pace, but my desire for new toys aside and looked at the situation realistically, just for reading novels the current e-ink devices offer everything I need.

Kumabjorn · 09-06-2013, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSpider

16 shades of grey are enough for displaying text.

Have you ever read a printed book? They're much, much worse than what the current state of e-ink is at.

I just want 50 shades of grey. Then I'm happy.

orange! · 09-06-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I just want 50 shades of grey. Then I'm happy.

stutzj · 09-06-2013, 12:59 PM

Check out the pictures from this italian website. Extreme close up of the new Carta display in comparison to Pearl e-ink display.

http://www.eeevolution.it/e-ink-carta-specifiche/

jswinden · 09-06-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stutzj

Check out the pictures from this italian website. Extreme close up of the new Carta display in comparison to Pearl e-ink display.

http://www.eeevolution.it/e-ink-carta-specifiche/

Terrible photo comparison if you ask me. The comparison should have used the same text, font (if possible), and font size for every device. The photos should have been in focus and all the same size. The way he presents this, it is difficult to make any conclusions.

Barty · 09-07-2013, 11:54 AM

Anyone knows when B&M store like best buy will have this? I want to look and buy in person. Since amazon charges sales tax now I may as well support the B&M store.

Barty · 09-07-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nesler

Uh, Pearl does display 16 shades of gray. A far cry from 256, but I'm not sure how useful that'd be anyway.

And the Kobo Aura HD is 265 ppi. So it's getting there.

Cover art would look a lot better with 8 bit grayscale.

As it is, I don't even bother with looking at covers.

jswinden · 09-07-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barty

Anyone knows when B&M store like best buy will have this? I want to look and buy in person. Since amazon charges sales tax now I may as well support the B&M store.

Usually they don't show up in B&M stores for at least a few weeks after they start shipping to early Amazon buyers. Seems like last year it was several weeks after initial shipments went out.

derangedhermit · 09-09-2013, 04:55 AM

Even cheap paperbacks have contrast of 50:1. Printer paper, and high quality book paper, is up to 100:1. That's why I said even the latest version is still 4x-7x worse than paper. Do some fact-checking. All other common display technologies are much higher than 100:1, btw. At e-ink's 15;1, there's no "white" and there's no "black" - only light gray and middle gray. "Paperwhite" is only aspirational, misleading marketing.

16 shades of gray IS 4-bit. With more shades, you can implement better font rendering at lower ppi counts; no reason to invoke viewing images to see a substantial improvement - text is reason enough.

E-ink doesn't do "pixels" in the way we think of them in other technologies anyway, and that's another disadvantage. The size of the capsules varies a lot; look at microscopic images of an e-ink screen. With print and other display technologies, the pixel or dot size is much more accurately controlled. E-ink "pixels" are fuzzier and more irregular.

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09-05-2013, 12:12 PM	#61
caleb72 Indie Advocate Posts: 2,863 Karma: 18794463 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: Kindle	I don't know how long it will take to get to the Australian market, but I'll probably pass. I love my current PW and although the screen improvements seem pretty good, they also seem a bit incremental and probably not compelling enough for me to take the leap. I held on to my K3 until Amazon delivered front light technology. Now I have it, I'm not sure what my next need is going to be. It might be a reasonable wait before I have an opportunity to buy, so I'll reassess then.

09-05-2013, 12:47 PM	#62
johnnyb Cloud Reader Posts: 1,110 Karma: 4000066 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kindle Oasis, Kindle Scribe, iPad Pro 11	or instead of re-selling you could just order the new PW and send the old one back...and see if you'll get caught (i.e. if their handling guys notice the difference)

09-05-2013, 12:51 PM	#63
derangedhermit Addict Posts: 239 Karma: 1280000 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Device: None	The incremental improvements in e-ink contrast over the past several years, and the unchanged 4-bit gray scale, make it uninteresting to me as a basic technology. 1/4 to 1/7th the contrast of paper? No thanks. 4-bit grayscale? No thanks. The tech isn't evolving into something I'm interested in buying into again. 100:1 contrast, 256 shades of gray , ~300 ppi, and I'm interested. E-ink isn't going to get there, ever, as far as I can tell. Very low power consumption is by far the biggest feature, and that's not enough.

09-06-2013, 12:59 PM	#70
stutzj Zealot Posts: 106 Karma: 305794 Join Date: Sep 2012 Device: Kobo Glo HD, PW2, Kindle 5(black)	Check out the pictures from this italian website. Extreme close up of the new Carta display in comparison to Pearl e-ink display. http://www.eeevolution.it/e-ink-carta-specifiche/

09-07-2013, 11:54 AM	#72
Barty doofus Posts: 2,521 Karma: 13088847 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	Anyone knows when B&M store like best buy will have this? I want to look and buy in person. Since amazon charges sales tax now I may as well support the B&M store.

09-09-2013, 04:55 AM	#75
derangedhermit Addict Posts: 239 Karma: 1280000 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Device: None	Even cheap paperbacks have contrast of 50:1. Printer paper, and high quality book paper, is up to 100:1. That's why I said even the latest version is still 4x-7x worse than paper. Do some fact-checking. All other common display technologies are much higher than 100:1, btw. At e-ink's 15;1, there's no "white" and there's no "black" - only light gray and middle gray. "Paperwhite" is only aspirational, misleading marketing. 16 shades of gray IS 4-bit. With more shades, you can implement better font rendering at lower ppi counts; no reason to invoke viewing images to see a substantial improvement - text is reason enough. E-ink doesn't do "pixels" in the way we think of them in other technologies anyway, and that's another disadvantage. The size of the capsules varies a lot; look at microscopic images of an e-ink screen. With print and other display technologies, the pixel or dot size is much more accurately controlled. E-ink "pixels" are fuzzier and more irregular.